New player(s) thoughts

[Payadopa]

The people that do acknowledge the story being a large gatekeeper still may not have the empathy for the amount of actual effort it takes and how lonely the experience is.

Something that finally upset me was that my gf broke down and said she can never have fun with our FC, or play with us because she's been stuck in MSQ for roughly 2 years now. She's in Shadowbringers but the game has barely taught her how to even play, it's just conditioned her read a visual novel. This is not a good experience.

Yoshi messed up in trying to pull the over-arching story to the end of each MSQ and dragging it on, making this whole thing a massive mess and 2 whole expansions being almost completely filler. Other MMOs have done a decent job of branching their new areas into their own story without requiring everyone know everything about the previous.

I can't sit idly by telling people to just play a subscription MMO for 400 hours by themselves, it's completely unreasonable and it's asking people to sub for roughly 6 months just to stick with the story. And I'm sorry, but getting to know Alphinaud over 400 hours is not worth not getting to play with your actual friends.

We're going to start to lose players to WoW with the changes they've made.




This is the lack of empathy for the new player and coop experience. I don't really care about my own experience, I've played this game to death. I want other players to experience it and do MMO/Open World things, but that's a hard and nearly impossible task. For the new players that are only leveling 1 class, they have 0 reason to do anything else other than crafting/gathering in their spare time. Which only delays the inevitable and expands that MSQ time.

Okay, I sympathise with a few things, like having to go through ARR and maybe not liking to read much (I happen to do, so... eh), but explain to me why you can't just do the 'old' trial fights or what have you. Maybe I over read that part. You make it sound like there is nothing else to do till you reach current endgame.

[R041]

Okay, I sympathise with a few things, like having to go through ARR and maybe not liking to read much (I happen to do, so... eh), but explain to me why you can't just do the 'old' trial fights or what have you. Maybe I over read that part. You make it sound like there is nothing else to do till you reach current endgame.

Because the opportunities for coop are way too far and few in-between to be an enjoyable experience for a player expecting to play an actual 'MMO', let alone a Multiplayer game, with most coop opportunities being in Post-MSQ for each expansion.

The experience comparison with WoW to FFXIV in this department (Questing/MSQ), is that in WoW I can tag along and enjoy everything and gain levels/items/achievements/new story regardless of level.

But FFXIV has crunched the experience to almost force players to strictly do MSQ until they reach 'end-game'. The content for both of us within this ARR-Shadowbringers period is excruciating and has been downgraded more every year. These things incentivize anyone wanting to actually play the MMO portion of FFXIV with a friend to Story+Class Boost. Which is a poor experience overall because it means they have no context for story, have no idea how to play their class, or the other option is to sit through MSQ for 400 hours. They're both poor experiences overall.

Also I do try and hype them up with in-between Trials and fun content, but then it's like telling your kid to go to bed when you tell them they gotta continue with MSQ after the fun stuff. It's kinda sad.

I hope nobody's upset with me - I'm certainly not upset with anyone in this discussion. I just want FFXIV to do better and to provide a better experience for players looking for an MMORPG and Cooperative experience.

[Payadopa]

Because the opportunities for coop are way too far and few in-between to be an enjoyable experience for a player expecting to play an actual 'MMO', let alone a Multiplayer game, with most coop opportunities being in Post-MSQ for each expansion.

The experience comparison with WoW to FFXIV in this department (Questing/MSQ), is that in WoW I can tag along and enjoy everything and gain levels/items/achievements/new story regardless of level.

But FFXIV has crunched the experience to almost force players to strictly do MSQ until they reach 'end-game'. The content for both of us within this ARR-Shadowbringers period is excruciating and has been downgraded more every year. These things incentivize anyone wanting to actually play the MMO portion of FFXIV with a friend to Story+Class Boost. Which is a poor experience overall because it means they have no context for story, have no idea how to play their class, or the other option is to sit through MSQ for 400 hours. They're both poor experiences overall.

Sorry, but I don't get it. I agree, we need more MMO in XIV. I come from XI and XIV is way, way too solo friendly, but saying there is nothing to do is a bit disingenuous.
My FC mates and me pretty much did all raid stuff etc once everyone was out of ARR. One of them is notoriously slow but finally reached Eureka, so we're trioing that. The game could stress these parts more, though. Another thing you can do early on with sprouts is PotD (which we also did).

[R041]

Sorry, but I don't get it. I agree, we need more MMO in XIV. I come from XI and XIV is way, way too solo friendly, but saying there is nothing to do is a bit disingenuous.
My FC mates and me pretty much did all raid stuff etc once everyone was out of ARR. One of them is notoriously slow but finally reached Eureka, so we're trioing that. The game could stress these parts more, though. Another thing you can do early on with sprouts is PotD (which we also did).

Because it's not enough - Don't you find it strange that you have to try and make your own fun out of the game between MSQ? I'm not being disingenuous with my points in any way, we often struggle to keep anyone interested because in the end, they still need to go through the 400 hours of MSQ. Regardless of how fun you make the in-between, the time proportion of fun/unfun is just too great.

My comparison here is that in WoW, you can do everything - Even MSQ together. It all syncs, and you both gain experience and rewards no matter what level you're at.

"Sorry, can't - I'm doing MSQ right now"

[PirateRyanG]

Because it's not enough - Don't you find it strange that you have to try and make your own fun out of the game between MSQ? I'm not being disingenuous with my points in any way, we often struggle to keep anyone interested because in the end, they still need to go through the 400 hours of MSQ. Regardless of how fun you make the in-between, the time proportion of fun/unfun is just too great.

My comparison here is that in WoW, you can do everything - Even MSQ together. It all syncs, and you both gain experience and rewards no matter what level you're at.

Why do people keep saying there is 400 hours of Main Quest?

I have just completed shadowbringers, and I am up to 10-days played. 240 hours.

That is with me running a ton of roulette per day (I always run when adventurer in need, plus the daily roulettes). Getting Botanist and Miner up to 80, fishing up to 38, and multiple crafting professions up to 50. Plus levelling a few additional classes. I have also run all the + quests from ARR and the first 2 expansions (except for the SB optional trials)

I can't imagine that Endwalker MSQ will offer 160 hours of gameplay.

So, where are you pulling your MSQ length from? ARR is like 50-60 hours total including cutscenes. The other expansions maybe 30-hours a piece, including cut scenes. I admit, some places may be faster if you are a Healer or Tank as you can queue faster for dungeons, but I find that DPS will likely have an easier time doing some of the solo duties (I sucked at a couple of them as I couldn't output enough damage or just sucked at a mechanic that a tank/DPS likely would have survived) so it likely all evens out?

Even then, I will put aside the fact that throughout the MSQ, you do still have opportunities to play with friends (dungeons, trials, etc.)

[R041]

Why do people keep saying there is 400 hours of Main Quest?

Did you actually finish Shadowbringers Post-MSQ? Because on average it takes 40-60 hours to finish each major MSQ. Cutscenes alone are 120 hours, so are you skipping dialog? Endwalker took me about 40 hours and that's without Post-MSQ.

You still have the story for each raid and trial series which I don't believe is counted here. But if you rushed MSQ and injected it straight into your veins, I could see it being 300. Which is still a crazy number.

https://howlongtobeat.com/game/12654 (This might not be counting crunch, but before crunch it was 120h)
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/28431
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/46463
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/66979
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/88046

[PirateRyanG]

Did you actually finish Shadowbringers Post-MSQ? Because on average it takes 40-60 hours to finish each major MSQ. Cutscenes alone are 120 hours, so are you skipping dialog? Endwalker took me about 40 hours and that's without Post-MSQ.

You still have the story for each raid and trial series. But if you rushed MSQ and injected it straight into your veins, I could see it being 300. Which is still a crazy number.

https://howlongtobeat.com/game/12654 (This might not be counting crunch, but before crunch it was 120h)
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/28431
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/46463
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/66979
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/88046

No. I am not skipping dialogue. I read everything.

And 'How Long to Beat' is rarely all that accurate.

I mean, that link shows that 'A Requiem for Heroes' will take 4-hours.

It takes like an hour, max. Even with the cutscene. It is literally 2 quests, and those quests involve you speaking to people.

In fact, most of the patches there are inaccurate (story content wise). As nearly every patch gives 2-3 hours content, max (story-wise). With many falling beneath that.

Even if you added up the lost on the first link, I don't think it would even reach 400 hours?

[R041]

No. I am not skipping dialogue. I read everything.

Everyone's experience is different - But the sum is a casual 300-400 hours. That's great that you're going to land on a sub-300, you'll still have all of the Raid/Trial Story. Proud of you. lol

You want me to start saying 300 MSQ hours? Still not good.

[PirateRyanG]

Everyone's experience is different - But the sum is a casual 300-400 hours. That's great that you're going to land on a sub-300, you'll still have all of the Raid/Trial Story. Proud of you. lol

You want me to start saying 300 MSQ hours? Still not good.

But you are also ignoring the fact that every few hours, there is something to do with people that you know.

It isn't just a slog where you don't play with your friends at all.

You can ALWAYS hop into roulettes from level 16 onwards if you want the interaction with your friends (and you both benefit)

Then trials, the MSQ roulette, the 60/70/80 roulette, etc.

As with all MMOs, you have to progress to unlock everything. However, to say there is nothing to do with friends on the way up is a flat-out lie.

[R041]

But you are also ignoring the fact that every few hours, there is something to do with people that you know.

As with all MMOs, you have to progress to unlock everything. However, to say there is nothing to do with friends on the way up is a flat-out lie.

You're admitting what I'm saying.. I never said there was no coop. I said it's too far and few for an MMO. Feel free to read the rest of my posts in this whole thread.

My hypothetical friend will have to do 3 hours of MSQ to do a 15 minute dungeon, then back to MSQ. Repeat for 300* hours. This was OK when the MSQ was just ARR+HW, maybe even Stormblood. But the length of this type of experience is getting extreme.

That's not enjoyable. Sorry, it's just not. I'm glad that you're okay with that, but it's not up to par with the other experiences out there now. We need to do better.

With WoW, you actually don't have to progress much to coop - You just need to meet min ilvl to do the dungeon, you can unlock most BFA dungeons by level 20 which you can do in an hour on a new toon. You don't need to meet some arbitrary story req. Otherwise anyone can run quests with you in open world, and content is synced allowing you to use your high level kit with your friend. If you finished the 'MSQ' or certain quests, you can do a 'Party Sync' to match the player and run the series of quests helping them along the way.