New player(s) thoughts

[Jojoya]

I've been playing since 1.0, and FFXIV has slowly become the least RPG of any MMORPG out here, people acting like this is an 'RPG MMO'
(snip the rest)

Out of curiously, how do you define RPG?

How do you define MMO?

Seems like a lot of problems in discussions stem from players having different definitions for both of those things.

[R041]

...

Most of the things I've listed are in other MMOs, and Marketboard/Bell, that's in all housing wards so it no longer makes sense to restrict them to a few towns.

What I'm trying to point out here is that we don't need SE to optimize our fun, everyone gets mad at the players for acting like the content is a spreadsheet and we optimize the fun out of everything, but look around - SE has already done that for you in almost every piece of content provided. I don't care that players might find a path more desirable, give me multiple paths in all walks of content that let me choose between 100 Moogle sized Chocobos or 1 Chocobo sized Moogle to mow down. You all get upset that some players optimized the fun out of Island Sanctuary, while simultaneously scarf down hundreds of hours of visual novel and linear dungeons, and your rotations and playstyle are pre-determined.

It doesn't matter that old content isn't perfectly synced for our abilities anymore, we do them unsynced and wipe them over and over, and they've already messed it all up with the class ability culling over the years WHILE synced. That's NOT an excuse.

We're not even allowed the illusion of choice, because everything is just picked for us regardless and we bypass that illusion entirely. The fact that people can't even comprehend how open world content could be made, or how you could have puzzles and chests in the open world, is pretty scary and just shows they don't play anything other than FF currently.

Tick Rate? Is ruining a ton of potential content, we've just become complacent and accepting of how bad it is.

So going to tell anyone confused about my Wishlist, if you don't understand it, or you've also become complacent with excuses - Do yourself a favor and play some other games for a few minutes. As bad as some people say WoW, GW2, and SWTOR are - They actually do a lot of these things very well.

[R041]

Out of curiously, how do you define RPG?

How do you define MMO?

Seems like a lot of problems in discussions stem from players having different definitions for both of those things.

When I think of an MMORPG - I think of something akin to a CRPG with MMO elements, not a single player visual novel. Something that triggers your curiosity to adventure and explore a world with others. When you have an MMORPG, you would think of all of the coop capabilities it could provide, not how you're going to watch a bunch of text cutscenes in discord together. May as well watch the Sopranos muted with subtitles, just needs some housing lottery you can never win and then you can call it an MMORPG.

When I think of MMORPG, I think of literally anything except XIV currently, because it has done such a great job in culling those lived and adventurous experiences with each other. It's ultimately become as barebones and as boring as a chatroom.

Just because FFXIV is a numbered game, does not mean it's even meeting the minimum expectations as the RPGs that came before it. They sparked curiosity, build diversity, exploration. XIV no longer does, and barely even has gameplay through MSQ to call itself a successor to it's previous RPG brothers and sisters. As much as I hate FFXIII - It at least had better hallway decision making.

The core issue I have is that this stuff used to be in FFXIV, and has been slowly boiled and refined out of it. You may think it's a better streamlined experience, but that just makes it more boring.

(Not trying to come at you hot btw, this stuff isn't inherently directed at you)

[kaynide]

OP, thank you for the feedback.

A lot of the problem of FFXIV is in what Jojoya said above- the game kind of relies on players/streamers for advertisement...which means the more exciting parts might be the only thing people see and lead to an incorrect opinion of what the game is about.

MMORPG just...isn't really a good descriptor anymore. There is little to no actual "RP" in this game- you are just along for the ride. 100% on rails. You don't even have the option to horizontally build out your character, aside from just playing a different job.

Rather, FFXIV might do better with a full paragraph description; something like:

FFXIV is a an interactive fantasy novel, with zero gaming experience needed to play (aka "I've never played a game in my life..or if I did it was in the 70s"). There is exciting optional content that caters to more avid gamers, but 90% of the game focus is on story.

[Deveryn]

MMO for me is just about the numbers. You have your single player experience, your multiplayer experience with up to 8 or so and then it gets massive after that.

I think some get too hooked on the numbers being the people occupying the screen and doing stuff. That's more like what it was back in the day, but we should be more honest with ourselves as there really wasn't much to do other than kill stuff at camp spots, wait for spawns and beat a boss to death. A lot of the time-consuming nonsense from the past has been shed so that veterans and newbies alike can come together and enjoy an experience.

[Marxel]

Seen some comparisons to WoW. As a player coming from WoW, I wouldn't compare the two. WoW and FFXIV are strong in vastly different ways. I like both for different reasons. Combat-wise I do like WoW better. It's faster paced and more versatile with talents, at the expense of balance though. I mean honestly, players here getting upset about a 3-4% damage difference between certain jobs meanwhile the graph for WoW DPS is just... insane. Overall, the story isn't the core to WoW - you're just some champion going along with the game's cast. I do feel the worldbuilding is better, I get more of a mood/theme from WoW's environments than in FFXIV. Other than that, combat/gameplay is WoW's focus.

FFXIV's core, however, IS its story. Personally I hate how WoW does it. If you were entering WoW now as a new player. You'd get dropped off in Battle for Azeroth, well into the game's universe and in the middle of a war between two factions you know nothing about. After that you enter Shadowlands, an expansion set up as the afterlife with characters/references dating back multiple expansions - expansions new players wouldn't even have gotten the chance to touch. If you wanted to play throughout each expansion to actually understand the story, you'd need multiple characters leveled up through separate parts. Now some people might prefer this, but I much prefer FFXIV's style getting us more involved with one character. Honestly to me the barrier for entry is lower in FFXIV with the older dungeons being easier and letting us play through each expansion to fully understand the story.

I honestly don't even know what I'd suggest to you. WoW's system is awful and basically leads to all the previous expansions being wasted content for newer players. I disagree that most players are story skippers. Sometimes yes I get tired of all the dialogue but overall I do feel respected for my time. This isn't meant to 'come at you' or anything like that, as I can understand the game might not be 100% for everyone. I just am not sure what giving new players a new entry (like a skip in the story) would do. This game isn't set up that way.

[Striker44]

snip...

I feel like you're using a very...off...definition of an RPG. Have you ever played RPG's? Or JRPG's in particular? Because that's exactly what FFXIV does (and much better and much more than practically any other MMORPG on the market). FFXIV is easily, far and away, the most RPG out there. Heck, one of the biggest "complaints" about it is how much story it has (hint: that's the core part of an RPG).

3.) Roulettes already do this.
6.) Everyone already has the opportunity to have a house. Heck, they even switched to the lotto system so people who don't have time to stand in front of a placard for hours and click can still have an opportunity for a house.
7.) FATE's already do this. And getting "similar % xp" from low-level content goes against the entire RPG concept (you know, that thing you claim to want?).
8.) You do (again - read FATES, Sightseeing Log, etc.).
9.) This would break the game, since fights at lower levels are designed around the kits players have at that level. And it would push newer players away when everything dies immediately to high-level players. This also seems completely contradictory to your #7, where you evidently want things to level sync, but not?
12.) That was done back in ARR. Players themselves rather quickly noticed the "optimal" routes and just run those.
13.) Dungeons have different pack counts. Some also change the spacing between them, include extra pats, etc..
14.) This is one of those things that certain people want, but the overwhelming majority of players don't. Games that have tried doing this anytime in the past 10 years or so end up cratering because of it.
15 and 16.) This is the RPG element you claim doesn't exist...
17.) Why?
22.) Again, you seem to want to cut out the RPG elements you claim already don't exist...also, there is more than enough content for the amount of classes I level.
23.) Boss FATES already do this.

It sounds like perhaps the design of this MMORPG in particular is just very different from what you personally want. Mayhaps it's time to poke around at others and find one that suits your desires?

[R041]

It sounds like perhaps the design of this MMORPG in particular is just very different from what you personally want. Mayhaps it's time to poke around at others and find one that suits your desires?

No, FF has changed and has been stripping systems, I didn't change what I've liked in MMORPGs.

Started playing WoW for the first time this month - It actually does a phenomenal job at most of the things I've listed and have been asking for the past 4 years in FFXIV.

Whenever I hear the excuse of "Why would you want that?" I just remember back from 1.0, when the exec said "Why would the players need Jump?" Because it's fun, and because I want things to do.

I just read excuses with the above list, it's always excuses for SE. Did you know WoW actually lets you level sync ALL content with your friends now? Completely blew my mind that I could level and do the same story quests that I've never done with someone 40 levels lower than me, and it lets me actually use all of my abilities and I'm not super OP like everyone keeps fearing here. Actually being able to coop, in an MMO? Unheard of. lol

[Rolder50]

6.) Everyone already has the opportunity to have a house. Heck, they even switched to the lotto system so people who don't have time to stand in front of a placard for hours and click can still have an opportunity for a house.

Pardon, but housing is impossible to get because the timer is turned off, so sparingly few plots open up. In the event a plot DOES open up, good luck competing with over 100 other people in the lottery.

[R041]

FFXIV's core, however, IS its story. Personally I hate how WoW does it. If you were entering WoW now as a new player. You'd get dropped off in Battle for Azeroth, well into the game's universe and in the middle of a war between two factions you know nothing about.

And unfortunately it's still a better experience than being forced to run through all of ARR-Shadowbringers. Which is the direct comparison for new players trying to get to current content in both games. These things made me more curious about the world - Who Jaina was, what the war was - It let me explore and figure things out without forcing me to digest hundreds of hours of text dialog and constant exposition. It sparked my curiosity, while FF often stifles it. I no longer care about walking to corners of the world, because I know there's nothing there unless I see a quest marker or FATE. While in WoW I'm sometimes rewarded with a fully voiced questline and sometimes a trinket with a special ability. Sightseeing Log is a poor excuse for exploration.

I also get to BUILD my class, and change how I want to do single-target, or multi-target. While FF has failed to add diversity to classes and chose to destroy these systems entirely.