New player(s) thoughts

[PirateRyanG]

Did you actually finish Shadowbringers Post-MSQ? Because on average it takes 40-60 hours to finish each major MSQ. Cutscenes alone are 120 hours, so are you skipping dialog? Endwalker took me about 40 hours and that's without Post-MSQ.

You still have the story for each raid and trial series. But if you rushed MSQ and injected it straight into your veins, I could see it being 300. Which is still a crazy number.

https://howlongtobeat.com/game/12654 (This might not be counting crunch, but before crunch it was 120h)
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/28431
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/46463
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/66979
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/88046

No. I am not skipping dialogue. I read everything.

And 'How Long to Beat' is rarely all that accurate.

I mean, that link shows that 'A Requiem for Heroes' will take 4-hours.

It takes like an hour, max. Even with the cutscene. It is literally 2 quests, and those quests involve you speaking to people.

In fact, most of the patches there are inaccurate (story content wise). As nearly every patch gives 2-3 hours content, max (story-wise). With many falling beneath that.

Even if you added up the lost on the first link, I don't think it would even reach 400 hours?

[R041]

No. I am not skipping dialogue. I read everything.

Everyone's experience is different - But the sum is a casual 300-400 hours. That's great that you're going to land on a sub-300, you'll still have all of the Raid/Trial Story. Proud of you. lol

You want me to start saying 300 MSQ hours? Still not good.

[PirateRyanG]

Everyone's experience is different - But the sum is a casual 300-400 hours. That's great that you're going to land on a sub-300, you'll still have all of the Raid/Trial Story. Proud of you. lol

You want me to start saying 300 MSQ hours? Still not good.

But you are also ignoring the fact that every few hours, there is something to do with people that you know.

It isn't just a slog where you don't play with your friends at all.

You can ALWAYS hop into roulettes from level 16 onwards if you want the interaction with your friends (and you both benefit)

Then trials, the MSQ roulette, the 60/70/80 roulette, etc.

As with all MMOs, you have to progress to unlock everything. However, to say there is nothing to do with friends on the way up is a flat-out lie.

[R041]

But you are also ignoring the fact that every few hours, there is something to do with people that you know.

As with all MMOs, you have to progress to unlock everything. However, to say there is nothing to do with friends on the way up is a flat-out lie.

You're admitting what I'm saying.. I never said there was no coop. I said it's too far and few for an MMO. Feel free to read the rest of my posts in this whole thread.

My hypothetical friend will have to do 3 hours of MSQ to do a 15 minute dungeon, then back to MSQ. Repeat for 300* hours. This was OK when the MSQ was just ARR+HW, maybe even Stormblood. But the length of this type of experience is getting extreme.

That's not enjoyable. Sorry, it's just not. I'm glad that you're okay with that, but it's not up to par with the other experiences out there now. We need to do better.

With WoW, you actually don't have to progress much to coop - You just need to meet min ilvl to do the dungeon, you can unlock most BFA dungeons by level 20 which you can do in an hour on a new toon. You don't need to meet some arbitrary story req. Otherwise anyone can run quests with you in open world, and content is synced allowing you to use your high level kit with your friend. If you finished the 'MSQ' or certain quests, you can do a 'Party Sync' to match the player and run the series of quests helping them along the way.

[PirateRyanG]

You're admitting what I'm saying.. I never said there was no coop. I said it's too far and few for an MMO. Feel free to read the rest of my posts in this whole thread.

My hypothetical friend will have to do 3 hours of MSQ to do a 15 minute dungeon, then back to MSQ. Repeat for 300* hours. This was OK when the MSQ was just ARR+HW, maybe even Stormblood. But the length of this type of experience is getting extreme.

That's not enjoyable. Sorry, it's just not. I'm glad that you're okay with that, but it's not up to par with the other experiences out there now. We need to do better.

With WoW, you actually don't have to progress much to coop - You just need to meet min ilvl to do the dungeon, you can unlock most BFA dungeons by level 20 which you can do in an hour on a new toon. You don't need to meet some arbitrary story req. Otherwise anyone can run quests with you in open world, and content is synced allowing you to use your high level kit with your friend. If you finished the 'MSQ' or certain quests, you can do a 'Party Sync' to match the player and run the series of quests helping them along the way.

WOW is a different type of game, though.

Those dungeons are meaningless without the story behind them (for some players)

If you want to run meaningless dungeons, play WOW.

If you want your dungeons to have a bit of an impact when you do unlock them for story purposes, play FF14.

I have run RFC countless times over the years. Can't tell you a damn thing about the story. Same with the original DM. I was horde. I could run it, but couldn't tell you a thing about the story because those quests were not accessible to Horde players. It was just...a dungeon.

ESO is the same. I love ESO, but I have no connection to the dungeons because there was no build-up to being there. They just exist. I can't for the life of me tell you the story behind many of those dungeons. I don't know why I am there fighting a big spider or a cult. I just...am.

With FF14, unlocking a dungeon felt like a milestone. Something I have worked for. Like, the culmination of a story.

You seem to want something in FF14 that it isn't attempting to be. I guess we want different things from our games. I want a personal connection to whatever I accomplish in FF14. The dungeons to be milestones. To have a big build up to them.

Dungeons like Snowcloak (for instance) would be pointless without the story leading up to it (chasing down the lady). Proving my worth to Hræsvelgr, pointless without the lead-up story. Many of the dungeons are like that in FF14. You don't feel anything for the dungeons unless the game leads you there. They are part of a story. I wouldn't want to touch them without everything beforehand.

[R041]

With FF14, unlocking a dungeon felt like a milestone. Something I have worked for. Like, the culmination of a story.

You seem to want something in FF14 that it isn't attempting to be. I guess we want different things from our games. I want a personal connection to whatever I accomplish in FF14. The dungeons to be milestones. To have a big build up to them.

It's not that I want it to attempt to be anything new, I want what FFXIV WAS, and has moved away from in ARR+HW. (The Trials/Raids/Mechanics are way better in Stormblood-Endwalker)

I think what we want is just something different - If you've played WoW for so long, and I've played FFXIV for so long, I think it's just that we want a shifted experience and for something new to happen. I want both games to learn from each other. I actually have a massive list of PROs/CONs for both. lol

I've enjoyed what I've found in WoW/BFA, and the dungeons do have story for their zone. You're right that depending on the Region I may not have the backstory so it seems like just a normal dungeon. But to be fair, a ton of the FF dungeons are just filler story set pieces anyway. Most dungeons aren't meaningful until Post-MSQ for each expansion.

But what I've experienced in FFXIV, is that they have reduced systems, or have completely forgotten about them - So excuse me if I'm a bit grouchy after playing for a decade in what seems like a game that continues to mock my ability to play it the past 4 years, if given the opportunity Yoshi would probably just play the game for us with how steamlined and minimalistic everything's become.

I'll play both, because they both provide different experiences - But I'd love if XIV 7.0 would provide us with more immediate coop experiences.