Endgame gearing in FFXIV

[Ransu]

Shit gearing system, I cleared p7s in week 1, cleared p8s week 3, still ilvl 622. SE, can you please do something? really pissed off

I do not understand why they even have piety and tenacity. SE can you either use these stat or remove?

Stop pugging? Seriously, the answer is that simple. They are not just going to give away a guaranteed piece just because you cleared. You already get a book and if you want less rng then join a static where people work together and pass on stuff they don't need. I guarantee most of you spend more time pugging than you would playing on a "schedule" with your average static.

[MagiusNecros]

Unless tome and raid sets share set bonuses this would be a nightmare for BiS.

Set bonuses don't add any variety. The only thing they do is add more balance problems.

This over focus on balance is why gear is stale. If all you care about is balance then there will always be just one BiS gearset and no build variety. So uh have fun with that.

[Shurrikhan]

This over focus on balance is why gear is stale. If all you care about is balance then there will always be just one BiS gearset and no build variety. So uh have fun with that.

It doesn't even come down to balance, though. Tier sets just reduce choice. Want G instead of C? Well, too bad, because you need A, B, C, and D all together or you miss out on the hefty bonus worth more than a tier's upgrade value.

And for what? If it's supposed to be a gameplay shake-up thematic to the tier, why should that be limited just to Savage drops? And if it's not, why was that power increases and subsequent shifts in job kit profile, which were meant to improve the kit, not just given through the kit directly?

Most often, asking for tier sets is like asking to get less just so that you can feel an extra step in progress to buy it back.

Borrowed powers aren't necessarily bad, but pigeonholing them awkwardly to a given acquisition path will almost certainly be.

Practically the only way tier sets end up fitting and deserved is if you want to time-gate Savage completion further by giving its gear rewards additional value specific to later floor's encounters and making those later floor's that much more difficult in balance. (But note: that bonus is essentially horizontal progression, with other means being available of getting most of those pieces general/vertical value.)

[MagiusNecros]

It doesn't even come down to balance, though. Tier sets just reduce choice. Want G instead of C? Well, too bad, because you need A, B, C, and D all together or you miss out on the hefty bonus worth more than a tier's upgrade value.

And for what? If it's supposed to be a gameplay shake-up thematic to the tier, why should that be limited just to Savage drops? And if it's not, why was that power increases and subsequent shifts in job kit profile, which were meant to improve the kit, not just given through the kit directly?

Most often, asking for tier sets is like asking to get less just so that you can feel an extra step in progress to buy it back.

Borrowed powers aren't necessarily bad, but pigeonholing them awkwardly to a given acquisition path will almost certainly be.

Why limit it to Savage? And why relegate effects to a class's level? If gear offers nothing other then ilvl you'll only ever chase the highest main DPS stat.

Is that what you want? One size fits all BiS set?

[Shurrikhan]

Why limit it to Savage?

Because that's literally what tier sets are in every iteration in which they've been produced? They're rewards from a single avenue of content. So unless you're honestly going to tell me that no one's going to get ticked with weekly-tome gear being upgradeable to Savage ilvl and then having performance-increasing set bonuses atop them...

And why relegate effects to a class's level?

I've no idea what you're referring to here. There is neither mention of classes nor job/class level in my post. I've simply noted that if you want the tier sets to have any performance impact, that impact will be equivalent to some further degree of ilvl.

If gear offers nothing other then ilvl you'll only ever chase the highest main DPS stat.

Gear offers throughput. You will choose whatever gives the most throughput for one's situation. The key, then, is the situation. That "choice" of throughput remains just as static, dull, and non-optional regardless of whether that throughput comes from raw stats or tier effects so long as there is no situational swing in its value. If there is no variance in situation, neither is there even any significant pretense of choice, only obfuscation that favors theorycrafters over those who prefer immersion (to be, at best, trapped by the shiny skill bonus worth less than the raw stats).

If I'm in a constant uptime fight, I'm going to choose double Jump damage over 5% more primary stat... not because it's more interesting or because it can burst harder, but simply because Jump makes up more than 5% of my sustained damage.

Only once there's something (say, a DPS check) I actually need Stardiver or DFD, etc., to burst down would I possibly have a choice, between sustained/total damage (and therefore fight clear speed) and burst damage (and therefore fight clear reliability). Until then... nothing has changed.

Is that what you want? One size fits all BiS set?

I want the most interestingly crafted damage profile the devs can manage for each job. Assuming they provide the job that best design they can manage, a tier set can only ever make it worse by adjusting that profile.

Everything is relative. If I'm dealing more Nostrand damage, I am, in relative and perhaps absolute terms (i.e., compared to just taking further primary/secondary stat, if anything is allowed to compete with these tier set items), dealing less damage with all else.

I'd rather have it just done well from the start than have it chipped at to make room for a future improvement that will last only a tier's time or to have it later chipped away at by that tier set.


That, or we need to actually deal with the disease, not just the symptoms. You need, then, to confront the homogeneity of content. But even that arguably doesn't leave you with true choice so much as just horizontal progression and a larger span of "good enough" pieces with added flavor text. I'd guess that's still probably worthwhile, but I could also see why that'd be too inefficient a prospect to sell to most.

[MagiusNecros]

I've no idea what you're referring to here. There is neither mention of classes nor job/class level in my post. I've simply noted that if you want the tier sets to have any performance impact, that impact will be equivalent to some further degree of ilvl.

You mentioned job kit profile. That pertains to the job specifically.

Your post has a lot of words that boils down to you do not like choice and just want one set that gives you the most damage. If that isn't the case you'll have to explain it to me like I'm 5.

If you want to deal with the disease then you will need to communicate with the devs and not the players. They are the problem because they have a direction on where they want job design and gearing to go in and players have a different opinion.

But given that players don't like the gearing system but also are opposed to build variety I guess auto crit on capstone abilities is the way to go? So maybe the devs know what's best?

[Shurrikhan]

You mentioned job kit profile. That pertains to the job specifically.

If by "tier sets" you mean anything like the "tier sets" created in any place that has previously called their creations "tier sets," job kit profiles are wholly pertinent.

A tier set effect is usually the likes of "X% increased damage on A," "X% lower CD on B," "Dealing X% increased damage to enemies afflicted by C," etc. Each of those adjust the job's kit profile. They change the redemption period for DoTs (the minimum number of ticks the enemy must survive for the DoT to be worth using), the situational priority of A over B, the sync cycle for C, etc., etc. That or those effects would have to so negligible and/or redundant that they certainly would not meet the ends you seem to be aiming for.

Your post has a lot of words that boils down to you do not like choice and just want one set that gives you the most damage. If that isn't the case you'll have to explain it to me like I'm 5.

My issue is that unless you actually create a different result of that damage that creates a choice between, say, greater total damage and greater control over damage pacing --which can only function if the content gives incentive for both options, such as to ultimately increase the speed or likelihood of a clear, respectively-- you're effectively asking to give people the choice between...

• hit 6 times for 1 damage each,
• hit 2 times for 3 damage each,
• hit 3 times for 2 damage each, and
• hit 1 time for 6 damage.

It's just that you've nicely dressed up the matter with obfuscations to increase the gap between lower and higher performing players -- or, at the least, the log-obsessive and all others -- as per:

• 2.1% more primary stat,
• a 10% increase to F&C / WT damage,
• a 75% increase to Mirage Dive damage, or
• 125 more Heaven's Turn potency.

...Except, given that it's specifically a tier set, and there are only two competitive sets created per tier, you really only have the choice, at most, between the increased stat and just one such skill-damage/frequency buff (of precisely equal value anyways, lest you end up with only one real choice).

Regardless, until there's a way for those options, each of almost exactly equal value in constant-uptime situations under the competitive secondary stat options for Dragoon, to actually produce a different result significant via the content I'm doing, there's just no reason to care where my extra 2.1% damage is coming from; it all just gets blurred out into the same matter of damage over the fight. Until then, if balanced, it's just flavor text; and if imbalanced, it just pushes more simming or study of fflogs using yellow parsers of the same job and secondary stat layout.

Again, I'm all for diversifying content to make those more meaningful choices. But dealing with the content is the first and necessary step to be taken, not obfuscating different damage sources by adding flavor text or messing with jobs' internal balance for the exact same net results.

[Ransu]

This over focus on balance is why gear is stale. If all you care about is balance then there will always be just one BiS gearset and no build variety. So uh have fun with that.

Build variety is a lie, even in swtor which literally just made gear shells and let you put in your own mods into them everyone just did the same builds. BiS will always exist no matter what you do to gear and stats. Why complicate things further with ridiculous set bonuses?

[MagiusNecros]

Again, I'm all for diversifying content to make those more meaningful choices. But dealing with the content is the first and necessary step to be taken, not obfuscating different damage sources by adding flavor text or messing with jobs' internal balance for the exact same net results.

I get what you are saying when you spell it out like that and I think dealing with the content is the right choice. But I don't think the devs are going to change their formula and only put out very easy and very hard content with no middle ground.

Instead of Easy > Hard > Extreme > Savage > Unreal > Ultimate

The obfuscation argument has merit I think because the secondary stats just amount to a obfuscating number when it should just give you a percentage that tells you what you need to know.

XIV Crit: 2500
Percentage: 27% Crit Rate

What tells you more? A number you have to figure out or a flat percentage?

Or rather instead of Stardiver saying it'll hit for 620 potency it should say at base how much damage it'll do without factoring in a Crit or buffs.

I suppose gear with unique effects/passives don't have much place in a game that has linear gear scaling and only wants you to stack weapon damage, main stat, and Critical Hit with the large focus on the 2 minute burst.

This is probably the way the game is being designed now that you have these problems where they want everyone to be viable so you end up having no options since everyone is so watered down to be so similar within a centimeter of each other and if the only DPS difference between different gear is 1% or 2% there is no reason to create or offer multiple gearsets/loadouts.

I'd rather gear be interesting but I don't think it'll ever be that way. Devs are stuck in their ways.

[Ransu]

Gear has never been interesting in any MMO. Its always just a mathematical conclusion to what will give the best output thus being BiS. Everything else is just a false choice.