What was they thinking when they did variant dungeons and criterion

[magitekLuna]

Players are going to be upset no matter what he does, and the worst thing he can possibly do is allow forum riots to dictate changes -- especially when the content you've listed as "missteps" are not missteps. Allowing the riot to dictate design is exactly how you end up with a fear-adverse design by committee.

I don't particularly care if you like or don't like anything he's tried; I'm just thrilled he's willing to try new things rather than stick with the same predictable stuff everyone eise is doing. Maybe that doesn't work for you -- and it really doesn't matter if it does -- but I'm not going to ignore what the man did because it's suddenly cool to smear him.

I'm looking forward to what comes next, even though circumstances around Endwalker made me sick. I don't know what else to say.

And what content asked to be changed? All asked here is to add to it the rewords that will make it last long. Look at all the other new things he did. Non relevant a patch or 2 later. This time a weak or 2.

[Rithy255]

Variant rewards are pretty much fine, I would have preferred better glamour options, having one set (that doesn't really fit any class and is just another boring "casual" outfit glam), other then that the rewards behind the variant aka easiest mode is great, I love how repayable it is compared to normal dungeon content, heck I'd say you had to even learn a few things in fights so I generally enjoyed the reward/gameplay

While I haven't yet touched Criterion, (I plan to in the future). Just looking at the rewards really annoyed me, I find that if they wanna do "end game dungeons" they should at least make the reward comparable to extremes if not savage rewards, It becomes "whats the point of doing it again?" which is true theirs no point (outside of fun) for doing the hardcore dungeons.

Disappointed, I like smaller groups but raids are always going to be took more seriously either way.

[vanaii]

And what content asked to be changed? All asked here is to add to it the rewords that will make it last long. Look at all the other new things he did. Non relevant a patch or 2 later. This time a weak or 2.

This might come as a shock, but content doesn't disappear when it no longer has rewards for you to gain. It's still available to other players for the first time, it's still possible for other content to require it (such as relic).

The silliest thing is to expect every piece of content in the game to somehow be evergreen. I don't know if I would take people wanting this content to last longer to be taken as a compliment that what was added was a ton of fun or the players wanting to stretch it out are so mmo frazzled by rewards they no longer know how to enjoy themselves without a carrot.

There's a whole game out there. Enjoy the buffet rather than focus exclusively on the single piece of a new type of content that was just added.

[Midareyukki]

This might come as a shock, but content doesn't disappear when it no longer has rewards for you to gain. It's still available to other players for the first time, it's still possible for other content to require it (such as relic).

The silliest thing is to expect every piece of content in the game to somehow be evergreen. I don't know if I would take people wanting this content to last longer to be taken as a compliment that what was added was a ton of fun or the players wanting to stretch it out are so mmo frazzled by rewards they no longer know how to enjoy themselves without a carrot.

There's a whole game out there. Enjoy the buffet rather than focus on the single piece of a new type of content that was just added.

I'd say the issue with older content is that as the game keeps going and keeps adding stuff and increasing numbers, the experience stops being the same. Not in the sense that "Oh, kids these days don't know what a good Coincounter boss was". But rather that the skills you had before are no longer the same. The job's feel is no longer the same, often due to them reworking it. And the synched down experience makes a lot of people feel like the content is boring, as their jobs have been watered down to their base classes.

Because otherwise, you're right. Hell, the Roulette system even encourages people to play older content and help people, and you have relics and other sort of content made to make you run older content and keep it alive. Not everything has to be relevant. BUT I'd argue that maybe stuff should be fun. And a sure-fire way of discouraging people from playing older content and leave it dead in the water is by making it/leaving it in a non-fun state.

I know suggesting stuff is about as useful as arse all, but maybe if they allowed people to have their skills while synching stuff down. Maybe if there were rewards added to those older contents to keep them interesting. Or, you know, just stuff to make people feel like it's worth engaging in them.

Take what you said about the relics. You're right, of course, but most people just unsynch half the stuff required. Light farming for Anima? PF a group of people and run Alex Savage unsynched. Running the dungeons or trials for Anima? Unsynched. Do Tam Tara for the Zodiac weapon? Unsynched... Khloe's diary? It gets Unsynched too and people spam the same instance over and over with those other points. So that older content isn't exactly "alive" anymore, and the people who run them for other stuff go for the quickest route. And grinding poetics is literally just a matter of running Bozja or doing roulettes, nothing major about that there. When Anima was content, it was tied to Tomestones of Lore and stuff, which demanded a bit more of a grind than Poetics do.

Editing bc lol post limits :P

People wouldn't need to White Knight if people's feedback was fair and balanced. If you are going to tell the developers what you don't like, then tell them what you do like so they know what they are doing right. "I like this, but I don't like that".

A lot of feedback is one-sided on this forum "I don't like this, this, this, or anything." Developers would be forgiven for thinking they can do nothing right and that everything they do is always wrong however much they try to please you.

Hold it there buckeroo ;D I ain't that sort of hypocrite!

Okay, that thread was a thing and it didn't really work out that much, but there's a key difference between "Hey, you're doing a lot of flaws in succession" and "This is utter garbage". And people in these threads really need to stop painting the situations like that's what happened. No one said that.

The only thing that people were saying was that constantly looking back at their old glory doesn't excuse them from being called out when stuff does happen. It wasn't directed at the devs. It was directed at the community who kept sweeping problems under the rug. Otherwise? Yeah! I agree with you! The devs HAVE done quite a lot to be thanked for. Not many people will agree with what you're excited about, but that's alright. But the reverse side of that coin is being as fair toward the places where the game needs to improve upon. And dismissing people who say as much is just as harmful as when people only focus on the negative aspects.

...ok, deja vu... this was the exact same sentiment I expressed when I made that thread...

[magitekLuna]

This might come as a shock, but content doesn't disappear when it no longer has rewards for you to gain. It's still available to other players for the first time, it's still possible for other content to require it (such as relic).

The silliest thing is to expect every piece of content in the game to somehow be evergreen. I don't know if I would take people wanting this content to last longer to be taken as a compliment that what was added was a ton of fun or the players wanting to stretch it out are so mmo frazzled by rewards they no longer know how to enjoy themselves without a carrot.

There's a whole game out there. Enjoy the buffet rather than focus exclusively on the single piece of a new type of content that was just added.

Ok as some one that wanted to do older raids on a new character I play now it was hell. Each thing take over 30 min to get in to it at all. Things like old raids/trials. Deep dungeons are not even possible to find a party for. So as long as it's there the people you need for it are not.and turn ff14 in to a solo game won't help it.

[Jeeqbit]

I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if some of the forum's white knights were paid by Square Enix to do what they do. Sometimes what they say/do is just beyond logic and understanding. Just don't bother with them.

People wouldn't need to White Knight if people's feedback was fair and balanced. If you are going to tell the developers what you don't like, then tell them what you do like so they know what they are doing right. "I like this, but I don't like that".

A lot of feedback is one-sided on this forum "I don't like this, this, this, or anything." Developers would be forgiven for thinking they can do nothing right and that everything they do is always wrong however much they try to please you.

[magitekLuna]

But most of the time it is fair and balanced.
What did I say that was wrong. Even the defenders don't say the problem is not there. They just try to spin it to be a good thing.
To the people that say "why content need to have something to make it live longer,so it won't turn in to deep dungeons.so new players a year from now can do it as well.

[Absimiliard]

This might come as a shock, but content doesn't disappear when it no longer has rewards for you to gain. It's still available to other players for the first time, it's still possible for other content to require it (such as relic).

This might come as a shock, but most players would prefer to be rewarded for their time when engaging in challenging content.

[Iscah]

To the people that say "why content need to have something to make it live longer,so it won't turn in to deep dungeons.so new players a year from now can do it as well.

Variant dungeons can be done (and arguably are best suited to being done) entirely solo. Each person who arrives at this point in the game will be able to do it on their own time, with no need to find a full group.

[vanaii]

Ok as some one that wanted to do older raids on a new character I play now it was hell. Each thing take over 30 min to get in to it at all. Things like old raids/trials. Deep dungeons are not even possible to find a party for. So as long as it's there the people you need for it are not.and turn ff14 in to a solo game won't help it.

You're pointing to a much bigger problem that's brushed aside with "check the discords bro," and I wish I had a better answer for you. This problem is not unique to the new dungeons, and it's something that does need to be solved-- but I have no idea how it should be solved.

As cool as BA, DR, CLL, DDD (deep deep dungeon) might be, the best I can say in the current era to find runs through that content are "check the discords bro." Same with synced older content and such.

I don't really count spamming an unsynced trial to get a mount as "accessing content." I'd love to see something to incentivize actual gameplay in older content, but there's clearly a piece missing.

Merely adding a drop or two to these new dungeons won't make them evergreen. Something like (somehow) leveling roulette would need to exist to make this tier of content evergreen.