Why are Criterion dungeons so hard?

[Vidu]

People have been requesting difficult content for light parties for quite a while now - this content is supposed to fullfill that request.

One thing that makes Savage so difficult is that you need 7 more people to attempt it - static scheduldes are one of the things that really complicate Savage. So we got Criterion Dungeons for those who want that challenge, but dont want to work around 8 different scheduldes and reducing that to 4 instead.

I agree that some "middle ground" content would be nice, too - but at least I was never under the impression that Criterion was supposed to fill that niche; it was supposed to be Savage but for light parties.

[Shurrikhan]

People have been requesting difficult content for light parties for quite a while now - this content is supposed to fullfill that request.

Right, but that content can't really mirror or compete with Savage... if it's tuned around already having Savage gear. That makes it an extension of Savage, not an alternative way to experience difficult content for those who can't meet static schedules or dislike the scripted-ness of XIV raids.

If it had been designed as asked for (a Savage-alternative as challenging content nonetheless accessible to anyone), it probably wouldn't use player ilvl at all, instead following only one's secondary stat distribution. That would allow for precise tuning and independence from Savage gearing while also keeping its difficulty relevant across multiple tiers.

[Espon]

Right, but that content can't really mirror or compete with Savage... if it's tuned around already having Savage gear. That makes it an extension of Savage, not an alternative way to experience difficult content for those who can't meet static schedules or dislike the scripted-ness of XIV raids.

If it had been designed as asked for (a Savage-alternative as challenging content nonetheless accessible to anyone), it probably wouldn't use player ilvl at all, instead following only one's secondary stat distribution. That would allow for precise tuning and independence from Savage gearing while also keeping its difficulty relevant across multiple tiers.

You don't need savage gear, it's doable as long as you meet the ilvl requirement and use food. The enrage timers are not that tight, but these mechanics are designed to be as difficult as something you would see in a savage raid and failing them will likely either result in either death or getting a heavy damage down debuff.

I'm not sure what you mean by an alternative for "the scripted-ness of XIV raids." Everything is scripted in this game, from dungeon bosses to raid bosses, random enemies and those found in FATEs. There are no fights that will just throw things at you randomly, they're all designed around timing and patterns. Some fights will use mechanics in a random order or have variations to make sure you're paying attention, but every fight will always follow an AI script.

[Shurrikhan]

You don't need savage gear, it's doable as long as you meet the ilvl requirement and use food.

"Doable" is not the same as "designed around".

I'm not sure what you mean by an alternative for "the scripted-ness of XIV raids." Everything is scripted in this game.

A raid is, essentially, just its script. In criterion dungeons you at least have things breaking that up. It's not just a script per instance.
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Again, my point is merely that if it was meant to be a sort of alternate or independent content of a fixed difficulty, its gearing would likewise be independent and fixed.

[Arohk]

Again, my point is merely that if it was meant to be a sort of alternate or independent content of a fixed difficulty, its gearing would likewise be independent and fixed.

You can clear it with crafted gear, if that is not good enough for you, go do savage and get that fine loot.
There is already a lack of content where your gear matters.
Dungeons scale you down, fates scale you down, your savage gear is only good in savage content, there is only a lack of rewards in Criteon which results in not many people actualyl wanting to clear it.

[Shurrikhan]

There is already a lack of content where your gear matters.
Dungeons scale you down, fates scale you down, your savage gear is only good in savage content, there is only a lack of rewards in Criteon which results in not many people actualyl wanting to clear it.

Savage gear isn't only useful in Savage, but even if it were, that'd still be fine... because that gear is that second means by which Savage intentionally soft-nerfs itself. There'd be no need, from a development perspective, for the game to drop Savage gear if it didn't see a need for weekly easing for less skilled players the content's throughput checks or near-OHKO mechanics. Unless, of course, one takes the perspective that all content is solely a means to gear and never gear a means to content enjoyably tuned to a given player within that content's focus. But even then, the BiS gap could be miniscule and still offer its "I have the best stuff!" reward.

Unless a game is almost entirely grind-based and the game is actively trying to polarize its playerbase into those who had the ability to acquire grind-acceleration vs. the rest (in which case, most MMOs usually convert challenge-walls to pay-walls anyways)... the point of gear progression is just to soft-nerf content, making it more accessible over time (that is, if one's community doesn't jack ilvl requirements up so needlessly high that you'd need to dedicate weekly acquisitions all to a single job and partake in Savage from the start).

It serves no other function. It exists only to make things increasingly less challenging and pad /played hours via obliged maintenance (though that latter purpose only even works half the time, due to highly affordable crafted sets) that would slightly linearize content paths to add a bit of content longevity / gating to rarely-subbed players (again, largely defeated by crafted sets).

That may as a byproduct feel like a form of progression, but one already had "progression" in/via getting better at a given piece of content and its workings (optimizing one's job and composition, etc.), so it ends up just partly replacing one form of progression with another (conflating 'playing better' with 'being better geared'). That then lasts until one reaches BiS and is finally allowed again to fully vie for the original form of progression. It just replaces "get good" in fair part with "get geared" so that challenge can be replaced with prior grind.

That ability to replace challenge with grind may be iconic to many RPGs, but the game's content itself would function just fine without it or with any of various other ways of soft-nerfing content over time (see Echo mechanic, weekly minute aura nerfs, etc.).

Savage and weekly tome gear ease Savage, making a Week 5 Savage tier clear that much easier than a Week 1 Savage tier clear. It's not really meant, though, to accelerate anything and everything such that weekly grinds and especially Savage become largely non-choices. Else you'd never have seen ilvl caps on other content to begin with.


Tl;dr:

• Not everything has to be gated by/through a single content variety. It'd be as fine for Savage (or generally tier-max-ilvl) gear to be just for Savage as it was for PvP gear to have been just for PvP.
  
  
• Especially given that this was meant to be something of equivalent difficulty to Savage from the start and does not give any competing rewards, I'd slightly rather have seen Criterion dungeons scale with player ilvl or, ideally, use an independent means of progression. We don't normally have other options of gear acquisition atop weekly currency other than Savage nor anything quite of equivalent difficulty level (which, once Savage-geared, this isn't anyways), so it would make more sense for there to be a degree of redundant parity (e.g., both drop Pages, but still only one of each kind per week), really flesh this out, and later time CrDs releases to Savage tier releases... or to truly split the two apart. In the meantime, it at least needs further rewards, even if just of the cosmetic variety.