Please make Verraise accessible at level 12

[Mithron]

Irrelevant. It still uses White Magic and Black Magic. THAT is Red Mage's identity in the franchise

And specifically the White Magic that RDM is known for in the franchise are Cure spells. It's White Mage who exclusively use their offensive spell known as "Dia" (HARM in NES). Red Wizards can even learn Life, but only White Mages/Wizards can learn Heal (AoE cures). Red Mages can also learn Poisona, Blindna and Protect. By late game, Red Wizards are known for using Temper and Haste to buff the other physical hitters (Knights, Masters and Ninja), then using it on them selves for supplemental physical attacks (Thus Embolden). They can do decent AoE damage with tier 2 Black Magic spells on trash mobs, and if the White Mage/Wizard runs out of MP or dies, the Red Mage is there to backup with additional MP pool to draw from.

In FF3, Red Mages could use Aero spells like White Mages, but you didn't typically cast it much outside specific scenarios because you really wanted to conserve their MP for Cure and support spells instead.

You are dismissed

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

And specifically the White Magic that RDM is known for in the franchise are Cure spells. It's White Mage who exclusively use their offensive spell known as "Dia" (HARM in NES). Red Wizards can even learn Life, but only White Mages/Wizards can learn Heal (AoE cures). Red Mages can also learn Poisona, Blindna and Protect. By late game, Red Wizards are known for using Temper and Haste to buff the other physical hitters (Knights, Masters and Ninja), then using it on them selves for supplemental physical attacks (Thus Embolden). They can do decent AoE damage with tier 2 Black Magic spells on trash mobs, and if the White Mage/Wizard runs out of MP or dies, the Red Mage is there to backup with additional MP pool to draw from.

In FF3, Red Mages could use Aero spells like White Mages, but you didn't typically cast it much outside specific scenarios because you really wanted to conserve their MP for Cure and support spells instead.

You are dismissed

Ngl that is a banger summary. I was half wondering if someone could do that for me, thank you.

[Azuri]

And specifically the White Magic that RDM is known for in the franchise are Cure spells. It's White Mage who exclusively use their offensive spell known as "Dia" (HARM in NES). Red Wizards can even learn Life, but only White Mages/Wizards can learn Heal (AoE cures). Red Mages can also learn Poisona, Blindna and Protect. By late game, Red Wizards are known for using Temper and Haste to buff the other physical hitters (Knights, Masters and Ninja), then using it on them selves for supplemental physical attacks (Thus Embolden). They can do decent AoE damage with tier 2 Black Magic spells on trash mobs, and if the White Mage/Wizard runs out of MP or dies, the Red Mage is there to backup with additional MP pool to draw from.

In FF3, Red Mages could use Aero spells like White Mages, but you didn't typically cast it much outside specific scenarios because you really wanted to conserve their MP for Cure and support spells instead.

You are dismissed

Should we talk about Sage in previous Final Fantasy games?

The "bUT tHoSe OlD gAmES fROM EntIrelY diFFeRenT tImE aND GenRe" is not an own that you think it is.

[Rithy255]

Should we talk about Sage in previous Final Fantasy games?

The "bUT tHoSe OlD gAmES fROM EntIrelY diFFeRenT tImE aND GenRe" is not an own that you think it is.

Current RDM has raise and vercure, so it's apart of it's job identity weather you like it or not.

[Azuri]

Current RDM has raise and vercure, so it's apart of it's job identity weather you like it or not.

As the story of this game shows, entire core concepts of a job can change drastically in a single patch. You can ask WAR, DRK, SCH, AST, SAM, MNK, BRD, MCH or SMN. Soon to be joined by PLD. *wink*

[Mithron]

Job identity is not specifics in FF, it is generalities.

I just wanted to highlight and emphasize this classic example of FireMage being FireMage. Good stuff, always disappoints.

Should we talk about Sage in previous Final Fantasy games?

The "bUT tHoSe OlD gAmES fROM EntIrelY diFFeRenT tImE aND GenRe" is not an own that you think it is.

Sage is a difficult example but aside from their weapon, is a pretty decent attempt at making them fit in FF14's style of trinity roles. They want SGE to be a Healer role, so they tried to find a way that it can heal while doing damage since SGE is meant to be the "master of magic" in classic FFs with access to all the best Black and White Magic spells. Since they can't really give it Flare, Holy and Bahamut spam and want Healers to be lowest DPS, this was the best they came up with also pushing for barrier identity. It's not perfect, but it's still pretty neat to see how they made it work. When I play SGE with that kind of mindset, I have a lot more fun with it. I just wish healers had much more complex DPS rotations and at least 2 dots each, and potentially Cleric Stance stance dancing returning.

Stripping RDM of Vercure/Verraise would be equivalent of stripping PLD of all melee sword skills and turning them into Holy Spirit only, or removing BLM's 3 elemental spell rotation and only casing Fire magic. It would remove the core identity of their classic FF history. I play RDM because I like Vercure and Verraise being there on my bar and "viable" tools. The same reason I like taking RDM in FF1: jack of all trades, master of none, sword/shield wielding medium armor wearing low level White/Black magic casting well rounder who provides decent basic attacks, decent AoE damage, decent heals and always backs up my Knight for tanking if needed, my White Mage for healing if needed, and my Black Magic or physical attacks if needed while excelling in none of them.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

[...]Stripping RDM of Vercure/Verraise would be equivalent of stripping PLD of all melee sword skills and turning them into Holy Spirit only[...]

Probably a bit uneven in comparison, because I do not think that Cure/Raise is as deeply rooted into a Red Mage as is general swordsmanship of a Knight / Paladin. I'd say sooner "a part of Knight" but certainly not a hefty bit of the core. RDM restorative magic is certainly part of it, but not as core as the general idea of being a Caster/Melee hybrid.

That said, I have a proposal.

Verraise and Resurrection, both imo can go. I want them both to shoot up in damage numbers so the devs can stop worrying how much they need to tax the damage (which they absolutely do).

In turn, the following:

1.) In preperation to point #2 and I bold this on purpose so you don't cringe before reading it properly - a "spell" that does basically "nothing", like Form Shift for Monk, other than prepping Dualcast. This is necessary to allow for the downtime optimisation to prep Dualcast as it is currently possible in downtime, while allowing for the changes on #2 to not impact this.

2.) Change Vercure from "Spell" to "Ability", changing the recast to 15s on three (3) charges, allowing you to weave Vercure in between. Adjust potency as seen fit.
3.) Replace Verraise with Vermedica (Ability) on a 60s recast. Idea is essentially an oGCD Medica II but with potency value within the range of Summon Phoenix's Everlasting Flight.

The interesting part of #2 and #3 is that they play hand-in-hand with "Magick Barrier", which happens to enhance healing recovery to those affected, especially the Vermedica. Vermedica also being more on demand than Everlasting Flight plays in similar leagues to Dancer with Curing Waltz.

Now, obviously RDM has a lot to weave, so it may be a bit of a challenge to get it all under the barrel, but so does a job like Dark Knight during large burst windows or Gunbreaker.

Why am I suggesting this? Because I fully understand the niche people want RDM to see in, and imo this would be the most sensible way for Vercure (and other things) to exist in Red Mage without either being too impactful or basically useless.

[Mithron]

I'm just going to continue to ignore FireMage's obvious shortcomings.

Verraise and Resurrection, both imo can go. I want them both to shoot up in damage numbers so the devs can stop worrying how much they need to tax the damage (which they absolutely do).

2.) Change Vercure from "Spell" to "Ability", changing the recast to 15s on three (3) charges, allowing you to weave Vercure in between. Adjust potency as seen fit.
3.) Replace Verraise with Vermedica (Ability) on a 60s recast. Idea is essentially an oGCD Medica II but with potency value within the range of Summon Phoenix's Everlasting Flight.

I don't think non-raid damage buffing utility needs to be taxed at all. It's just flavor, and since it's not required in any fight, it shouldn't cause the job to have lower damage. I believe RDM's identity should be 3rd lowest DPS, not because of Verraise, but because they should be known as low personal DPS but high DPS buffing as their role is in classic FFs. Just above BRD and DNC, but below everyone else, which means buff Embolden and add more raid damage buffs as needed, and even up their aDPS if necessary. But it should be low.

The problem with making Vercure a free OGCD is that it might not be necessarily more fun depending on how it works. With many charges, you're gonna have to be target switching quite often to use them basically on cooldown to be optimal and may even take away from what a lot of healers want to do. It's not really very fun to constantly switch from enemy target to someone on party list to heal with Vercure then quickly back to enemy without clipping GCD, especially for controller players. While it sounds great on paper and makes it an actual usable button during combat, I don't know if it would be fun. I want Clemancy to behave like this (at the cost of 50 Oath), but I worry about how RDM would need to play to use it.

I'm not a fan at all of giving RDM a medica, as even in FF1 they don't have AoE heals. RDM does have access to Nul-element spells in FF1 so Magick Barrier makes sense. You can multi-target Cure in FF3 and beyond, but I mean I find that to be more of a healer/tank feature than RDM for 14.

Of course this is just me and my opinion.

[MagiusNecros]

And specifically the White Magic that RDM is known for in the franchise are Cure spells. It's White Mage who exclusively use their offensive spell known as "Dia" (HARM in NES). Red Wizards can even learn Life, but only White Mages/Wizards can learn Heal (AoE cures). Red Mages can also learn Poisona, Blindna and Protect. By late game, Red Wizards are known for using Temper and Haste to buff the other physical hitters (Knights, Masters and Ninja), then using it on them selves for supplemental physical attacks (Thus Embolden). They can do decent AoE damage with tier 2 Black Magic spells on trash mobs, and if the White Mage/Wizard runs out of MP or dies, the Red Mage is there to backup with additional MP pool to draw from.

In FF3, Red Mages could use Aero spells like White Mages, but you didn't typically cast it much outside specific scenarios because you really wanted to conserve their MP for Cure and support spells instead.

You are dismissed

Good writeup. Historically Red Mage has only been able to cast mid tier magic. Holy and Flare gets an ok because the endgame Swords that are exclusive to RDM/RDW can be used to cast high level spells through the use of the Defender, Lightbringer, Deathbringer, Ragnarok. Most of these equippable by the Red Wizard but the spells could be used by anyone by using the weapon as item magic in battle.

So you actually have the spells Flare, Holy, Blink, Scourge, Death at your disposal.

As you say the Red Mage buffs the Party with Temper and Blink and then spams Holy.

Thus far RDM is a very true depiction of the job in the franchise even in XIV.

On the subject of Sage the Sage in this game has nothing to do with the Sage of FF3 which had mastery over all White and Black Magic. Which in XIV RDM kinda already does having access to Flare and Holy.

In XIV it's a shield based healer job with a heavy Gundam aesthetic and I think is a more original job for XIV.

Nothing wrong with original jobs. We will probably need more of them later in the games life.