Mysterious monsters without much explanation?

[Lyth]

I wouldn't have automatically jumped to the conclusion that Ifrita represented a gendered concept in this game. The Amaurotines have their own names for a lot of familiar concepts from our own world, which is how I had personally interpreted this. And as was pointed out earlier, the fire concept that we can build with Hephaistos during High Concept is still the 'Ifrit' that we know. While there can be more than one possible manifestation of Ifrit, as we've seen from E6S, was there anything in this game that actually supports the claim that the two terms 'Ifrit' and 'Ifrita' are 'completely different'? Or is this just speculation based on a side game?

With regards to the earlier conversation in this thread, both the Church of Locus and the Sect of Germonique have their theories about Ultima's origins (as per Field Record 42), and the Sect in particular invoked that familiar ritual to use their bodies as vessels in Lucavi summoning (which is suspiciously reminiscent of Voidsent summoning). Now if only we knew which 'Locus' (place) such a Church could be based in...

[Cleretic]

I wouldn't have automatically jumped to the conclusion that Ifrita represented a gendered concept in this game.

Pronouns: Ifrita has 'em.

Ifrita. A manifestation of concentrated fire aether. I could see what Azem was planning: transform the volcano's aether into Ifrita, draw her away, and then destroy her elsewhere. This would safely disperse the excess. Of course, the plan required someone to procure the concept of Ifrita for Azem. But if that someone was not Lahabrea himself, who else could it be?

The Savage raid strongly implies that Ifrita and Ifrit were basically the same, but we do have to remember that the context of Pandaemonium Savage is 'present-day scientific paper drawing connections between Ancient times and modern day and taking some dramatic liberties', so take that with a grain of salt. But regardless of what Ifrita actually looked like, the intention of her addition was pretty clear: to declare that Ifrit was an Ancient construct that the Amal'jaans misinterpreted as a creator deity, and not a figure that the Amal'jaan society devised of their own accord or derived from their own experiences like the Ixal (although even the Ixal don't really consider Garuda their creator, which it turns out they were right not to). And I don't like that.

[thegreatonemal]

Pronouns: Ifrita has 'em.



The Savage raid strongly implies that Ifrita and Ifrit were basically the same, but we do have to remember that the context of Pandaemonium Savage is 'present-day scientific paper drawing connections between Ancient times and modern day and taking some dramatic liberties', so take that with a grain of salt. But regardless of what Ifrita actually looked like, the intention of her addition was pretty clear: to declare that Ifrit was an Ancient construct that the Amal'jaans misinterpreted as a creator deity, and not a figure that the Amal'jaan society devised of their own accord or derived from their own experiences like the Ixal (although even the Ixal don't really consider Garuda their creator, which it turns out they were right not to). And I don't like that.

The "dramatic liberties" being that entire phase, you're not meant to try and draw anything from it other than a lalafell with a wild imagination.

[Alpheus]

Pronouns: Ifrita has 'em.



The Savage raid strongly implies that Ifrita and Ifrit were basically the same, but we do have to remember that the context of Pandaemonium Savage is 'present-day scientific paper drawing connections between Ancient times and modern day and taking some dramatic liberties', so take that with a grain of salt. But regardless of what Ifrita actually looked like, the intention of her addition was pretty clear: to declare that Ifrit was an Ancient construct that the Amal'jaans misinterpreted as a creator deity, and not a figure that the Amal'jaan society devised of their own accord or derived from their own experiences like the Ixal (although even the Ixal don't really consider Garuda their creator, which it turns out they were right not to). And I don't like that.

I have similar thoughts for the EW ramifications of Gridania's whole setup cuz it makes it REALLY underwhelming for me and rather horrifying at the same time.

[Cleretic]

I have similar thoughts for the EW ramifications of Gridania's whole setup cuz it makes it REALLY underwhelming for me and rather horrifying at the same time.

That sort of an entirely different enormous subject as a whole (and one that might get more attention if we get a variant dungeon set in the Shroud like I'm guessing we will), but the Elementals are a funny combo for us, because they're both essentially a leftover from a different plan in 1.0, and a thing that we in the English-speaking world miss a lot of the cultural context on (they're basically the Japanese myth of the kami bigged up considerably and mixed with a bit of European fae).

Definitely a considerable derail from the subject of this thread, which we're already kinda derailing on a minor level.

[Alpheus]

That sort of an entirely different enormous subject as a whole (and one that might get more attention if we get a variant dungeon set in the Shroud like I'm guessing we will), but the Elementals are a funny combo for us, because they're both essentially a leftover from a different plan in 1.0, and a thing that we in the English-speaking world miss a lot of the cultural context on (they're basically the Japanese myth of the kami bigged up considerably and mixed with a bit of European fae).

Definitely a considerable derail from the subject of this thread, which we're already kinda derailing on a minor level.

Fair, won't derail further just wanted to say (referring to my last post) how you felt about the Amalja is a vibe i share AND that I just feel similarly to how Gridania fared (and Im not even a fan of Gridania) with the EW-ining of a sizeable chunk of its lore. Anyways you have a good one ^^b.

[RyuDragnier]

The Savage raid strongly implies that Ifrita and Ifrit were basically the same, but we do have to remember that the context of Pandaemonium Savage is 'present-day scientific paper drawing connections between Ancient times and modern day and taking some dramatic liberties', so take that with a grain of salt. But regardless of what Ifrita actually looked like, the intention of her addition was pretty clear: to declare that Ifrit was an Ancient construct that the Amal'jaans misinterpreted as a creator deity, and not a figure that the Amal'jaan society devised of their own accord or derived from their own experiences like the Ixal (although even the Ixal don't really consider Garuda their creator, which it turns out they were right not to). And I don't like that.

There is always some aspect of fact in myth. Things get exaggerated, misremembered, and become fantastical in nature. But there's always a part of the myth that's true. If we look in the past of the game, there are 2 possible times in the past where it's possible for it to be true.

First possibility, Ancient Allag and Zurvan. As in his description, "records describe the "Demon" striding into battle girded head to foot in armor formed of unshifting flame." During that time frame Allag used reptoids, creations made from multiple scalekin specimens and spliced together. They were kept under control via a metal box in their head that shocked them to have them follow commands. One could feel they were "beasts bereft of reason or intellect, each fighting an endless, mindless battle for survival."

Imagine if you will if Zurvan proceeded to fry those metal boxes without harming those reptoids, and then unspliced them with his intense aetherical power. It would be akin to having been cleansed by a sacred fire, as the creation myth states. This would make said myth rather truthful in a fashion, they were cleansed by a sacred flame, they were saved by a "god of flames".

However, that doesn't take into account the Calamity of Earth causing widespread destruction, or how they'd survive it.

The 2nd possibility, is that all of this happened during the 3rd Calamity, the calamity of fire, which razed the planet, burned crops, bringing famine and turning forests into deserts. At such a time there would indeed be people fighting for survival without a single thought. A being could have arose then to uplift the Amal'jaa and would have brought them the glory where "the tribes ranged far and wide, and ruled all that walked or crawled upon the land".

Downside of this possibility is that we have 0 way of knowing if that even happened because Allag is the furthest back we know in terms of world history, outside of the small area that was Ivalice (which was likely during the time before said 3rd Calamity).

[YianKutku]

There is always some aspect of fact in myth. Things get exaggerated, misremembered, and become fantastical in nature. But there's always a part of the myth that's true.

To be fair, at some point the "true" part of the myth is so far removed from the myth that the myth ceases to be a useful guideline on what that truth allegedly is. For example, the level 50 FSH quest, where "giant sea serpent" was actually "just a big fish".

Still, I personally like your second idea of the Calamity of Fire being the source of the Amalj'aa belief in a fiery deity. The Calamity of Fire was not really "raging wildfires", but more "dry heat", according to the lorebook, but I assume that dry heat would lead to wildfires anyway due to, well, dry heat. The dryness would not be as damaging to the Amalj'aa as other races, given the Amalj'aa being less reliant on water, but the lack of food would definitely be an issue. Having a saviour figure emerge from that Calamity using fire-based rhetoric would certainly help the myth of Ifrit.