People who can't do AOE rotations in 70+ Content

[FireMage]

Slagging off people who are still learning isnt a great look either. Due to how job levelling and the speed you can level jobs works, its more than possible to be lv70 in a job and not fully understand how it works. Switching from SMN to SCH was an experience, despite maining WHM. Switching to a shield healer took some practice to get down, often in lv60 content.

Yikes. Someone didn't read their tooltips

[SylvAlternate]

You did not ask players to please use their AOE rotation. You told them to stop playing the game. That is the difference.

People here know how to use their AOE rotations. The people who need help aren't reading this. This is virtual jousting aimed at fostering a braggadocios gameplay environment. We do not need to lambast new or less-experienced players for our own pleasure. They have enough difficulty with the game as it is. Putting an ambiguous, unsizable conglomerate of players down behind their backs is a low-effort, passive-aggressive self-esteem booster and has no constructive purpose.

if you read the very first post in this thread you'll see that they didn't tell people to stop playing the game, they told players to use the singleplayer features instead of sandbagging 3 other people in every dungeon, and yeah you're right people here already know to use them, but it's not like anyone in this thread has actually been arguing about that part, it's been almost entirely about DF randoms not using them

and I don't see how this is supposed to be fostering a "braggadocios gameplay environment" (or "toxicity" in normal person speak) or "lambasting" new players for "pleasure", literally all anyone on this side of the argument wants is for players to have the basic competency required to realize that pressing their multi-target attacks in a multi-target situation may be a good idea

also if anything we should be telling new players specifically about these things, someone in Sastasha <10 hours in is much more likely to improve their playstyle than someone in The Dead Ends 300 hours in.
if someone doesn't tell them, they'll never know, and if you wait too long then they'll never change

[Tiramu]

Yikes. Someone didn't read their tooltips

What??? Why do you need to be like this? like every post I've seen you make has been hostile or belittling to someone. I've been on here for a couple of weeks and youre the only name I know, and thats from wondering what this guys problem is. I gotta say one thing, you're a master of first impressions.

Anyway, I do read my tooltips. My point was that levelling to lv60 on one job that simulaneously levels another job in a completely different role isnt smart design and doesnt help players learn how the co-levelled job works, it actively hinders it. Regen to shield healers is a transition in itself because they use completely different methodologies, so if you switch from one to the other, it takes time for your mind to adapt.

There are various design decisions in XIV that easily lead to players finding themselves on jobs at a higher level that they just havent had the time to master.

Reading tooltips tells you what stuff does, but it doesnt teach you how to play a role, especially rolling into lv60 content. But of course, I'm sure you pick up new jobs and are awesome off the bat, just from reading your tooltips.

[Absimiliard]

Wait, since when do healers need to be able to heal in 60+ dungeons?

[Avoidy]

People like that are why I won't take dungeons as anything but WAR anymore.
Pull everything with a group that should be able to easily handle it, only to see like, the MCH doing his 123 flips from alaska, and the blm spamming fireIV. And then the ToS is so vague that nobody even wants to say anything because they're afraid of being reported for fOrCinG a pLayStYLe, and lord knows some toxic positivity champ in the group will chime in to be like "it's fiiiiine that the caster isn't aoeing, don't worrryyy about it haha!"
These people made leveling my other tanks such a miserable experience. Would burn through every mitigation on the first pack and it'd still all be alive except for the couple of mobs the dps were single targeting. You don't even have to be amazing or minmaxing, just if you see 3 or more mobs press any aoe at all please.

[FireMage]

What??? Why do you need to be like this? like every post I've seen you make has been hostile or belittling to someone. I've been on here for a couple of weeks and youre the only name I know, and thats from wondering what this guys problem is. I gotta say one thing, you're a master of first impressions.

Anyway, I do read my tooltips. My point was that levelling to lv60 on one job that simulaneously levels another job in a completely different role isnt smart design and doesnt help players learn how the co-levelled job works, it actively hinders it. Regen to shield healers is a transition in itself because they use completely different methodologies, so if you switch from one to the other, it takes time for your mind to adapt.

There are various design decisions in XIV that easily lead to players finding themselves on jobs at a higher level that they just havent had the time to master.

Reading tooltips tells you what stuff does, but it doesnt teach you how to play a role, especially rolling into lv60 content. But of course, I'm sure you pick up new jobs and are awesome off the bat, just from reading your tooltips.

If you don't have an inkling of how healers work at 60 through multiple instances of passively observing them in content that's a YOU problem

[Atelier-Bagur]

Wait, since when do healers need to be able to heal in 60+ dungeons?

You know I've tried that, just forgo healing all together during those dungeons and DPS during mob pulls and my group just kept wiping and called me out for not healing and I said "Oh I'm sorry, I thought healers weren't supposed to heal" and they kicked me out.


Needless to say that little experiment of mine kinda proved how disingenuous and bs that mentality can be that you don't need to heal at all in dungeons. Or probably that the group just sucked in general, can't be my fault now can it? Noo...

[ty_taurus]

You know I've tried that, just forgo healing all together during those dungeons and DPS during mob pulls and my group just kept wiping and called me out for not healing and I said "Oh I'm sorry, I thought healers weren't supposed to heal" and they kicked me out.


Needless to say that little experiment of mine kinda proved how disingenuous and bs that mentality can be that you don't need to heal at all in dungeons. Or probably that the group just sucked in general, can't be my fault now can it? Noo...

The disconnect here is that you shouldn't need to GCD heal in dungeons generally. You have the power to weave healing between DPS spells, so rather than stopping to cast Physick on the tank, you should be using Excogitation, Lustrate, Sacred Soil, Indomitability, Fey Blessing, Summon Seraph, Aetherpact, Whispering Dawn... You don't have all of these right after level 60, but you should at most need an Adlo or 2 if you're struggling.

WHM has less OGCD healing to rely on, so they're a bit of an outlier, but Holy's stun followed by a Regen, followed by another Holy stun will give you a lot of time of no damage. You'll also have Divine Benison, Tetragrammaton, Asylum, and Benediction if you need it. You still shouldn't be standing there spamming Cure or Cure II.

If you do feel like you can't survive without that, you're either not using your cooldowns, or the tank isn't.

That said, some of the leveling dungeons at higher levels have abnormally nasty trash packs. Bardam's Mettle is pretty notorious for having some really painful trash waves before the first boss. The last packs of trash before the final boss of both the Tower of Zot and the Tower of Babil are pretty rough. It's ironic how these dungeons have much nastier trash enemies, and then you fast forward to The Fell Court of Troia and it feels like the trash is actually healing the tank with how little damage they deal (which is kinda true actually if your tank is a WAR).

I remember farming Antitower for one step of the Bozja relic as SCH for the fast queues, a level 60 dungeon, and I quite literally never had to even touch a single healing button. Eos did 100% of the healing that I needed for the trash and the bosses.

[Atelier-Bagur]

The disconnect here is that you shouldn't need to GCD heal in dungeons generally. You have the power to weave healing between DPS spells, so rather than stopping to cast Physick on the tank, you should be using Excogitation, Lustrate, Sacred Soil, Indomitability, Fey Blessing, Summon Seraph, Aetherpact, Whispering Dawn... You don't have all of these right after level 60, but you should at most need an Adlo or 2 if you're struggling.

WHM has less OGCD healing to rely on, so they're a bit of an outlier, but Holy's stun followed by a Regen, followed by another Holy stun will give you a lot of time of no damage. You'll also have Divine Benison, Tetragrammaton, Asylum, and Benediction if you need it. You still shouldn't be standing there spamming Cure or Cure II.

If you do feel like you can't survive without that, you're either not using your cooldowns, or the tank isn't.

That said, some of the leveling dungeons at higher levels have abnormally nasty trash packs. Bardam's Mettle is pretty notorious for having some really painful trash waves before the first boss. The last packs of trash before the final boss of both the Tower of Zot and the Tower of Babil are pretty rough. It's ironic how these dungeons have much nastier trash enemies, and then you fast forward to The Fell Court of Troia and it feels like the trash is actually healing the tank with how little damage they deal (which is kinda true actually if your tank is a WAR).

I remember farming Antitower for one step of the Bozja relic as SCH for the fast queues, a level 60 dungeon, and I quite literally never had to even touch a single healing button. Eos did 100% of the healing that I needed for the trash and the bosses.

Ohhhh no we are getting a little bit more into this argument now. See this is what Ive been wanting to hear. Not any of these stupid "lol dont need to heal" comments. So case in point, you do need to heal.

[Tiramu]

Wait, since when do healers need to be able to heal in 60+ dungeons?

Well, a healer needs to be able to heal about as much as a tank needs to be able to tank in most groups.