People who can't do AOE rotations in 70+ Content

[SannaR]

Such toxic. I know this is a whataboutism but... you don't know if someone's a story and level skipper. Or the types SenorPatty mentioned.

[Zebraoracle]

Such toxic. I know this is a whataboutism but... you don't know if someone's a story and level skipper. Or the types SenorPatty mentioned.

If someone level skips, they should take the time to read what their job abilities do before jumping into a duty and dragging everyone else down. Full stop. People who enable people to be bad, toxic drains on the group are just as bad as those same people who refuse to contribute. No one expects savage tier gameplay. Everyone should expect *basic understanding of how the game works*.

Also, something a lot of people forget exists - you can KICK people from your party. It's not mean. It's actively encouraged BY Square. Stop punishing yourselves by leaving when people refuse to respond to civil requests to do the bare basics of the game and actually kick these people. Queue with a friend so you can guarantee it goes through, it only needs two votes yes in 4 mans.

And for the record, there is a rule stating you can't enforce your way of playing on others. This rule works BOTH ways, people who want to just be lazy leeches are NOT allowed to do that, and there's ANOTHER rule that hits them too that basically says you're not allowed to just sit there and be a leech.

And again, because I feel like it probably has to be specified - this is NOT an attack on people that aren't good at the game. This IS an attack on people who refuse to contribute to GROUP CONTENT.

[SannaR]

If someone level skips, they should take the time to read what their job abilities do before jumping into a duty and dragging everyone else down. Full stop. People who enable people to be bad, toxic drains on the group are just as bad as those same people who refuse to contribute. No one expects savage tier gameplay. Everyone should expect *basic understanding of how the game works*.

Also, something a lot of people forget exists - you can KICK people from your party. It's not mean. It's actively encouraged BY Square. Stop punishing yourselves by leaving when people refuse to respond to civil requests to do the bare basics of the game and actually kick these people. Queue with a friend so you can guarantee it goes through, it only needs two votes yes in 4 mans.

And for the record, there is a rule stating you can't enforce your way of playing on others. This rule works BOTH ways, people who want to just be lazy leeches are NOT allowed to do that, and there's ANOTHER rule that hits them too that basically says you're not allowed to just sit there and be a leech.

And again, because I feel like it probably has to be specified - this is NOT an attack on people that aren't good at the game. This IS an attack on people who refuse to contribute to GROUP CONTENT.

Yeah, but ain't nobody got time to read stuff. They just want to get to the end game bro. So they can play with their friends. Geeze. Also this game shouldn't be a job kupo. People don't come home from work just to spend time at another job. And you're what going to hope the bad performer isn't the tank and healer so that you won't be sitting around for a few minutes in hopes one joins in progress? How dare you and everyone else tell those people they're not allowed to play the game the way they want to?

@Awesome didn't think you'd become a Fora Knight.

Aldo if anyone thinks I'm actually condoning such behavior just go and look at my post history from back during ShB where this topic would creep up almost every other week and there would be people who reply and die on said hill about how all I said above was an acceptable play style using such defense.

Hey Mollusk you wanna come sit with me and snack on some popcorn?

[Zebraoracle]

Yeah, but ain't nobody got time to read stuff. They just want to get to the end game bro. So they can play with their friends. Geeze. Also this game shouldn't be a job kupo. People don't come home from work just to spend time at another job. And you're what going to hope the bad performer isn't the tank and healer so that you won't be sitting around for a few minutes in hopes one joins in progress? How dare you and everyone else tell those people they're not allowed to play the game the way they want to?

@Awesome didn't think you'd become a Fora Knight.

Aldo if anyone thinks I'm actually condoning such behavior just go and look at my post history from back during ShB where this topic would creep up almost every other week and there would be people who reply and die on said hill about how all I said above was an acceptable play style using such defense.

Hey Mollusk you wanna come sit with me and snack on some popcorn?

To be fair, sarcasm doesn't come across well in text, nor do I know anything about you. If you're being sarcastic/satirical, then alright, I have no issue with you lol. But yes, there are a lot of people that do think exactly like that and it is MINDBOGGLING.

"Harmful", yes :P Like, I'd be like you, I wouldn't care... IF it didn't mean that I had to work harder as a healer\tank to keep up with the pull. If other people aren't doing that effort, why should I? It's not like I'm asking you to exert yourself because I'M exerting myself. I'm saying that these things are baseline, and that not doing them IS rude. Because the only reason I'm exerting myself is to make up for the fact that you are not. That for me is the harm.

It's more than just "oh lol, wacky DPS went ahead and pulled". The tank can grab aggro with one AoE, literally who cares. But dragging the dungeon down because you're focusing on one guy all the time is just going to make the pull last longer. And if it's in a dungeon that hurts a lot, then... yeah, no, you're not just being rude, you are being harmful.

idk if people remember Bardam's Mettle back when it was relevant, but remember that pull before the 2nd boss? Imagine a new healer having to deal with all that but their DPS decided to only burst down one mob at a time.

Bro that pull is STILL sketchy af if the tank and healer aren't on their toes using their CDs appropriately, and that's why DPS *SHOULD* be AoEing the mobs down, because the tank and healer can run out of cooldowns. Corridor before the first boss in that dungeon can also be rough if you're not paying attention, but nowhere near as bad as that pull you mentioned at least.

[Midareyukki]

Bro that pull is STILL sketchy af if the tank and healer aren't on their toes using their CDs appropriately, and that's why DPS *SHOULD* be AoEing the mobs down, because the tank and healer can run out of cooldowns. Corridor before the first boss in that dungeon can also be rough if you're not paying attention, but nowhere near as bad as that pull you mentioned at least.

Oh I'll do you one better. That pull, DRK tank, SCH healer, DPS refuse to AoE mobs down.

And this was before you had Living Dead working the way it does now. I could also point out Gunbreaker, but unlike DRK, GNB at least has cooldowns before deciding to shoot themselves in the face to survive. Dark Knight also doesn't have access to Blackest Night yet either, they're not lv 70 yet. Best they have is Shadow Wall and Abyssal Drain. Warrior has Thrill of Battle now and I don't play PLD at all, but it can randomly block incoming attacks, so at least there's that? And I chose Scholar because SCH is specifically the most resource-tied healer out of all of them.

[Zebraoracle]

Oh I'll do you one better. That pull, DRK tank, SCH healer, DPS refuse to AoE mobs down.

And this was before you had Living Dead working the way it does now. I could also point out Gunbreaker, but unlike DRK, GNB at least has cooldowns before deciding to shoot themselves in the face to survive. Dark Knight also doesn't have access to Blackest Night yet either, they're not lv 70 yet. Best they have is Shadow Wall and Abyssal Drain. Warrior has Thrill of Battle now and I don't play PLD at all, but it can randomly block incoming attacks, so at least there's that? And I chose Scholar because SCH is specifically the most resource-tied healer out of all of them.

[AwesomeJr44]

Such toxic. I know this is a whataboutism but... you don't know if someone's a story and level skipper. Or the types SenorPatty mentioned.

If you story/level skip, you have an obligation to learn your job either outside of group content or in lower level content (which the story skip conveniently unlocks for you), instead of yeeting yourself into Tower of Zot and subjecting three other people to having to carry you through. In fact, if you're a story skipper and don't meet the bare minimum, I'd judge you even more harshly than I would someone else. At least the bad players who somehow get through the story without learning anything are just bad. Story skippers who choose not to put in effort to learn their job are choosing to be bad and choosing to force others to put up with the consequences of the story skipper's actions.

If someone level skips, they should take the time to read what their job abilities do before jumping into a duty and dragging everyone else down. Full stop. People who enable people to be bad, toxic drains on the group are just as bad as those same people who refuse to contribute. No one expects savage tier gameplay. Everyone should expect *basic understanding of how the game works*.

Exactly. If you're level skipping, you are griefing other people if you jump into a duty without reading your tooltips. And I'd argue that the people who enable this behavior are even worse than the people engaging in said behavior.

Also, something a lot of people forget exists - you can KICK people from your party. It's not mean. It's actively encouraged BY Square. Stop punishing yourselves by leaving when people refuse to respond to civil requests to do the bare basics of the game and actually kick these people. Queue with a friend so you can guarantee it goes through, it only needs two votes yes in 4 mans.

^ This. If someone is being a leech, kick them. Don't tell them why and give them reasons to report you, (seeing as SE is heavily biased towards toxic casuals when it comes to reports) but kick them. Punish THEM, not yourself.