Paladin Updates

[TirionCrey]

Please stop saying this... warrior tanks are preferred for the HP... not enmity....
Yes warrior does more damage...
but come on
Take coincounter as an example....
With AOE rampart (The biggest hate puller in the game) and war drum....
that alone makes up for the extra WAR damage....
And if that wasn't enough... PLD can spam Holy Succor and cure..... in which case you'd have to do more than 1k damage every 10 seconds consistently to build that much hate.....
Massive enmity abilities... massive healing and decent damage.... PLD pulls more hate....

WAR is the tank of choice because PLD just has 2 major problems...

1. HP... thats a big deal

2. A lot of PLD hate relies on healing... but then PLD gets abilities that mitigate damage
Protect + Stoneskin + Divine Veil + Aegis Boon and you can literally spend 45 seconds of every minute not taking physical damage. So you either ignore the abilities so you can heal and build hate... or use the abilities and hope there are enough people around you when you cast "Rampart" to generate the enmity needed
Its a design flaw... for sure

You are making up numbers here. 45 secs of every minute? Divine Veil is forced Blocks, not 100% mitigated blocks. You could take 500dmg instead of 600 on a hit, it will just be blocked. To be sure we would have to wait for the servers going up and tests being made.

Enmity wise...Rampart, are you kidding me, biggest hate puller in the game?

I'll give you simple and straight facts for this.

PLD Hate Abilities:

Fast/Flat Blade Combo
Sentinel(raises Enmity generated by other actions)
Rampart
Provoke
Flash
Holy Succor(considering you actually heal yourself, not overheal)

That's it.

Now WAR:

Heavy Swing/Skull Sunder Combo(not to forget Steel Cyclone)
Provoke
Flash
Rampart(oh wait WAR has access to Rampart, the biggest hate puller in the game O.o)
Sentinel
Antagonize(same as Sentinel, raises enmity generated by other actions)
Collusion(gets you the hate of the next action performed by your target close to you, which on a Blindside Dragon Kick just kills PLD alone)

So....the only difference between WAR and PLD hate abilities is Holy Succor...awesome...

To even show you how much better WAR is I'll show you his other advantages...

WAR:

Second Wind(heal yourself for roughly 500HP), since no cast time you actually heal yourself everytime you need to be healed and get enmity for it
Vengeance(counter dmg done to you)
Featherfoot(guaranteed Evade)
Foresight(guaranteed Parry)

While PLD got:

Aegis Boon(guaranteed Block)
Hallowed Ground(15 sec 0 physical dmg)

I can clearly see the advantages of PLD over WAR...especially hate wise, since WAR has access to all PLD hate abilities, while PLD get's Provoke...awesome! JUST AWESOME! You opened my eyes, PLD is the tank for hate!

[Lux_Rayna]

I can clearly see the advantages of PLD over WAR...especially hate wise, since WAR has access to all PLD hate abilities, while PLD get's Provoke...awesome! JUST AWESOME! You opened my eyes, PLD is the tank for hate!

Do you know the hate values for things like hallowed ground and holy succor + cure spams as compared to all the WAR abilities you listed? I'm guessing no, since I dont see any tests anywhere. Quality over quantity as the saying goes...just because you have more abilities doesn't mean you build the most enmity. For the longest time all a THM had to do was spam two skills without mercy and would pull the hate off of you no matter what you did. Even now a GLA has to spam idk how many skills just to avoid losing enmity to a measly two skills. Thats where you argument has a big gaping hole. The number of them is irrelevant, the amount of hate each generates is the important piece of information.

And I bet you are missing that piece of information when it comes to PLD skills. I'm not saying you're incorrect, you *could* be right in theory..but you could also be wrong in theory. The basis of your claim is off is all im telling you.

[TirionCrey]

Do you know the hate values for things like hallowed ground and holy succor + cure spams as compared to all the WAR abilities you listed? I'm guessing no, since I dont see any tests anywhere. Quality over quantity as the saying goes...just because you have more abilities doesn't mean you build the most enmity. For the longest time all a THM had to do was spam two skills without mercy and would pull the hate off of you no matter what you did. Even now a GLA has to spam idk how many skills just to avoid losing enmity to a measly two skills. Thats where you argument has a big gaping hole. The number of them is irrelevant, the amount of hate each generates is the important piece of information.

And I bet you are missing that piece of information when it comes to PLD skills. I'm not saying you're incorrect, you *could* be right in theory..but you could also be wrong in theory. The basis of your claim is off is all im telling you.

Hallowed Ground is 15min cooldown, makes invincible against physical dmg, does not generate hate at all. It avoids getting dmgd. Holy Succor Cure equals 1 HP cured = 1 DMG point done. SE said that quite a while ago.

[Rydin]

You are making up numbers here. 45 secs of every minute? Divine Veil is forced Blocks, not 100% mitigated blocks. You could take 500dmg instead of 600 on a hit, it will just be blocked. To be sure we would have to wait for the servers going up and tests being made.

Enmity wise...Rampart, are you kidding me, biggest hate puller in the game?

I'll give you simple and straight facts for this.

PLD Hate Abilities:

Fast/Flat Blade Combo
Sentinel(raises Enmity generated by other actions)
Rampart
Provoke
Flash
Holy Succor(considering you actually heal yourself, not overheal)

That's it.

Now WAR:

Heavy Swing/Skull Sunder Combo(not to forget Steel Cyclone)
Provoke
Flash
Rampart(oh wait WAR has access to Rampart, the biggest hate puller in the game O.o)
Sentinel
Antagonize(same as Sentinel, raises enmity generated by other actions)
Collusion(gets you the hate of the next action performed by your target close to you, which on a Blindside Dragon Kick just kills PLD alone)

So....the only difference between WAR and PLD hate abilities is Holy Succor...awesome...

To even show you how much better WAR is I'll show you his other advantages...

WAR:

Second Wind(heal yourself for roughly 500HP), since no cast time you actually heal yourself everytime you need to be healed and get enmity for it
Vengeance(counter dmg done to you)
Featherfoot(guaranteed Evade)
Foresight(guaranteed Parry)

While PLD got:

Aegis Boon(guaranteed Block)
Hallowed Ground(15 sec 0 physical dmg)

I can clearly see the advantages of PLD over WAR...especially hate wise, since WAR has access to all PLD hate abilities, while PLD get's Provoke...awesome! JUST AWESOME! You opened my eyes, PLD is the tank for hate!

I'm not sure if you know what AOE means... but AOE rampart is indeed the biggest hate puller.. and no... WAR doesn't have that

[TirionCrey]

I'm not sure if you know what AOE means... but AOE rampart is indeed the biggest hate puller.. and no... WAR doesn't have that

I know what AoE means, and even if AoE Rampart generates more hate due to more people getting hit by it, it doesn't change the fact that it's not even nearly the biggest hate puller...not even close...a stupid Provoke generates more hate then Rampart, so does Flash, so does our Enmity Combo...so does almost anything hate related in the game...

Simple test. Group of mobs...let a BLM Firaga or Flare them. Use Rampart, you won't even get yellow on them. Use Provoke/Flash and it goes yellow, using both it goes red.

Now the best part about this. On WAR use Collusion on the BLM before he uses Firaga/Flare...all mobs blinking red for you...what's better?

And just to counter the stupid arguments that you won't Collusion a BLM mid fight...yeah we won't cause he's out of range for us to get the hate effect, since your target needs to be close to you.

Idk how others do it, but whoever is MNK in my group, I annoucne Collusion CD is gonna be up in a few seconds, MNK replies with whenever he is ready for his Dragon Kick combo and right before Blindside Dragon Kick I use Collusion on him. This alone is worth more then 4 Ramparts used in a row...

Nobody ever denied that PLD get's his shit done as well...the fact is that WAR get's it done better in each and every single part of being a tank.

[Phobos]

I know what AoE means, and even if AoE Rampart generates more hate due to more people getting hit by it, it doesn't change the fact that it's not even nearly the biggest hate puller...not even close...a stupid Provoke generates more hate then Rampart, so does Flash, so does our Enmity Combo...so does almost anything hate related in the game...

Simple test. Group of mobs...let a BLM Firaga or Flare them. Use Rampart, you won't even get yellow on them. Use Provoke/Flash and it goes yellow, using both it goes red.

Now the best part about this. On WAR use Collusion on the BLM before he uses Firaga/Flare...all mobs blinking red for you...what's better?

And just to counter the stupid arguments that you won't Collusion a BLM mid fight...yeah we won't cause he's out of range for us to get the hate effect, since your target needs to be close to you.

Idk how others do it, but whoever is MNK in my group, I annoucne Collusion CD is gonna be up in a few seconds, MNK replies with whenever he is ready for his Dragon Kick combo and right before Blindside Dragon Kick I use Collusion on him. This alone is worth more then 4 Ramparts used in a row...

Nobody ever denied that PLD get's his shit done as well...the fact is that WAR get's it done better in each and every single part of being a tank.

And here I go triple posting...

I would be much more apt to use Cover a lot if it did something comparable to Collusion. Right now it feels like If I use cover and the person I covered does something stupid I could die. I'd rather just toss them a succor (my opinion of succor has changed drastically overnight) and keep us both safe.