Yoshi-P "definitive" answer on third party tools from today's 14 hour stream

[FireMage]

Folks:

Exhibit one in why and how both logs and parses can be and are misused.

Unless that person has applied to your static, is a member of your static, is doing any form of high end content with you, you have no business nosing into their logs. Using logs to denigrate or belittle other players is EXACTLY the kind of behaviour that Yoshi was talking about, and why he is so against dps meters ingame.

I actually should be thanking you, you've made my point far more clearly than I could have

Your point was that logs are toxic. Showing someone talking out their ass isn't toxic, it's a public service

[VelKallor]

Your point was that logs are toxic. Showing someone talking out their ass isn't toxic, it's a public service

Using logs to attack others..IS toxic.

[FireMage]

Using logs to attack others..IS toxic.

Showing that someone lacks knowledge on a matter is not and never will be toxic. What's toxic is your hugbox mentality

[Kazhar]

Using logs to attack others..IS toxic.

No more toxic than using one's lodestone page or their achievements. Should we remove that too? Data is data.

[Azuri]

Using logs to attack others..IS toxic.

Of course. But some people don't even need logs to attack others.

Exhibit A)

I mean the thing about logs, if you need parsers to keep track of the battle you aren't good enough to judge others yet anyway and should leave your mouth shut regardless.

Exhibit B)

Hey now... I think we should leave those who use Addons alone, it's not their fault that they can't play an already easy MMO without the aid of 3rd party programs telling them how to play, where to stand, how much damage their doing, and with fflogs how else are they going to stroke their own ego and get that pat on the back, to make them feel special?

Or are those two (and others of your ilk) the paragons of log-free respect and mutual agrement?

[Midareyukki]

Using logs to attack others..IS toxic.

What Kazhar said:

No more toxic than using one's lodestone page or their achievements. Should we remove that too? Data is data.

I'd add that it's "worse" because you're technically using data collected through illegal means that can get you nailed if caught. But attacking people in general is toxic behaviour, regardless of where you get your data from.

[Ransu]

Your point was that logs are toxic. Showing someone talking out their ass isn't toxic, it's a public service

But you are also a grey/green parser lol.

[FireMage]

But you are also a grey/green parser lol.

Oof another bad faith post out of you, do you do anything in good faith?

[Ivtrix]

Of course. But some people don't even need logs to attack others.

Exhibit A)



Exhibit B)



Or are those two (and others of your ilk) the paragons of log-free respect and mutual agrement?

Neither of these players understand what they are trying to argue, nor do either of these players partake in high end content, but the community will whistle and look the other way because 1) snide passive aggressive language vs Firemage who will be called out as toxic for being confrontational and 2) the forum community at large enjoys taking pot shots at raiders as a scapegoat

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Well ain't this a wholesome read... lol.

Toxic mentality will bring out toxic behavior regardless of the 'tools' existence. What's so hard to grasp from that?

Hang around in twitter for a while, specifically those posts enhanced by GShades & Photoshops.. Quite uncommonly so, you'll eventually find those who actually witch hunt folk for enhancing their screenshots because apparently they couldn't use it on console. Should we entirely disable screenshots taking, too? :3c Can't have people editing their awesome shots!