What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[ReynTime]

I was always indifferent to Haurchefant. If anything, the game doesn't kill off characters often enough and seems overly concerned with either playing it safe or milking certain character deaths to ridiculous extents even though it's perfectly happy to downplay and ignore others.

Papalymo, for instance, is rarely mentioned by comparison - and even Ysayle doesn't get brought up as much as Haurchefant.

Papalymo got very little done with him since 2.0 so I can understand the apathetic reaction to his death from anyone but Lyse. Seems a lot of people say "he was unpopular so no one cared he died", but he was unpopular because outside of Tanaka's era nobody in the XIV team bothered to try doing anything with him. The whole "Louisoix's finest student" thing came out of nowhere. They could have built that up sooner.

[Vyrerus]

Haurchefant's a big deal because he saved the WoL's life. It was literally a personal sacrifice in a very personal way. Remember that Zephirin's lance of light was intended for us, just after Ascian cutscenes where they shared with Thordan how to kill Echo blessed individuals. He was life changing in the fact that he's the reason the WoL is still alive. Indirectly the savior of the entire universe, yo.
As for y'all saying he was barely in the game... He enters the story right after The Waking Sands massacre, and he's the only Ishgardian friendly towards the WoL. You stop an execution together. He gives you an in with the other houses so you can find Cid's airship. Later he's involved with the Shiva questline and response to heretics. Introduction of Aymeric. Then he takes the WoL, Alphinaud, and Tataru in after the Blood Banquet. Then he provides a means for them to enter Ishgard. Then you save his little brother Emmanellain with him, and then he's absent from your travels until just before The Vault as he's still duty bound to lead Camp Dragonhead. But he re-enters on your side without question, and assaults a member of the Heaven's Ward in broad daylight in the city center. He's unquestionably loyal and cool, and I honestly don't understand folks who are like, "Who's this elf bozo?" It's like y'all aren't even playing the same game at times.

Ysayle's death kind of comes out of left field, and I still wonder to this day why the clever Iceheart didn't sneak attack the dreadnaught. You know, the woman clever enough to slip past the guards and disable the outermost layer of Ishgard's forcefields? There was really no reason for her to approach it head on, other than to up the drama.

Papalymo's death stunk in a lot of ways. It just reeked of, "Hey let's get rid of this character we don't have a place for in Stormblood, even though we should." No build up for it, and no real pay off since it happened in 3.5 and then by 3.55 Shinryu broke out and we had to sic Omega on it anyway.

[Absimiliard]

Horsefountain was a character I just couldn't get invested in. I could see what they were trying to do with him, but instead of an emotional reaction my first thought upon seeing him die was, "well, at least now he'll stop inviting me to his bed."

He was truly personal space invasion cat's G'raha Tia's predecessor.

[Theodric]

Usually games with such characters have the decency to invoke consent. I know that's something a lot of people in this game's fandom struggle to grasp, though, judging by the meltdowns I've seen from certain players the moment someone criticises the clinginess of G'raha Tia.

[redheadturk]

Usually games with such characters have the decency to invoke consent. I know that's something a lot of people in this game's fandom struggle to grasp, though, judging by the meltdowns I've seen from certain players the moment someone criticises the clinginess of G'raha Tia.

I had no issue with Haurchefant, but that is because I understand the anime trope he is supposed to embody. If I didn't, believe me, I'd have much more of a problem with it.

[AwesomeJr44]

Horsefountain was a character I just couldn't get invested in. I could see what they were trying to do with him, but instead of an emotional reaction my first thought upon seeing him die was, "well, at least now he'll stop inviting me to his bed."

I liked him as a friend to my character, but I do think that his death has been overrated to hell and back by the community. Yes, I found it sad that he died. Do I think it's a part of the story? Sure. Doesn't mean I think it's the best storybeat since Darth Vader telling Luke he is his father. Then EW came in and tried to milk his death a bit in Aitiascope. At first I thought it was ok, then I actually thought about it a bit. It was just cheap emotional manipulation, just like the rest of Endwalker. If you give this expac any logical thought, it falls apart instantly. "Hey look at this! Remember that? Doesn't that make you feel bad/sad/mad/happy/*insert other emotion here*?" Then you have the streamers/Youtubers overreacting as always, getting hyper emotional over it and tearing up. Meanwhile I was just like "Oh that's cool."

Graha on the other hand... he should have just done what Haurchefant did and left his story on a high note. This is what would have happened if Haurchefant survived. The abomination that is Graha Tia.

[Vyrerus]

I liked him as a friend to my character, but I do think that his death has been overrated to hell and back by the community. Yes, I found it sad that he died. Do I think it's a part of the story? Sure. Doesn't mean I think it's the best storybeat since Darth Vader telling Luke he is his father. Then EW came in and tried to milk his death a bit in Aitiascope. At first I thought it was ok, then I actually thought about it a bit. It was just cheap emotional manipulation, just like the rest of Endwalker. If you give this expac any logical thought, it falls apart instantly. "Hey look at this! Remember that? Doesn't that make you feel bad/sad/mad/happy/*insert other emotion here*?" Then you have the streamers/Youtubers overreacting as always, getting hyper emotional over it and tearing up. Meanwhile I was just like "Oh that's cool."

Graha on the other hand... he should have just done what Haurchefant did and left his story on a high note. This is what would have happened if Haurchefant survived. The abomination that is Graha Tia.

Honestly, I've always felt there is a lore disconnect with Haurchefant's death. From the scenes on the Final Steps of Faith where his spirit and Ysayle's help the WoL and Alphi pull the eyes out to when his spirit shield shows up in Aitiascope...

The lore leads you to believe that a "blade of light" renders the soul into dissolute aether. I was always under the impression that he had been killed right down to his soul, so much so that my memory later disregarded the 3.3 scene after Nidhogg on the steps.

That's what made it so poignant to me, but like so many other things, the writers just do not care to adhere to what they wrote before with this game. It makes me sad and mad.

[Vyrerus]

Also, honestly, it feels to me in hindsight that Heavensward was an expansion where they wanted to fit as many double entendres onto the expansion title as possible.

Heavensward... We go up into the sky islands that float and flying is introduced to the game. Yeehaw!

Heavensward.... There's literally a Heaven's Ward that are part of the major antagonist.

Heavensward..... even into the .1~.5 patches major characters die or are hurt in the extreme. There's a lot of loss compared to other expansions, as if to say, "They went to Heaven." Heavensward.

[KageTokage]

Even the Ascians weren't completely destroyed by the methods used to kill them; it seems to just weaken their souls enough for the Lifestream to take hold of them and return them to the cycle as they're meant to.

It evidently takes a lot to make someone deader then dead, with only those involved in Hydaelyn's summoning process and those turned into beasts/blasphemies stated as having their souls completely purged, and the latter case is still uncertain as Meteion wouldn't need to be harvesting souls to deny life if she was actually capable of completely eradicating them.

[Vyrerus]

Even the Ascians weren't completely destroyed by the methods used to kill them; it seems to just destabilize their souls enough for the Lifestream to take hold of them and return them to the cycle as they're meant to.

It seems to take a lot to make someone deader then dead, with only Hydaelyn's summoning process and those turned into beasts/blasphemies stated as having their souls completely purged, and the latter case is still uncertain as Meteion wouldn't need to be harvesting souls to deny life if she was actually capable of completely eradicating them.

Yeah in the new way, I suppose, but that's just the writers being forced to think about and write for it again. In the new way.

You'll notice we didn't run into Nabriales in the Aitiascope, a far more major character in the grand scheme of things. Responsible for Moenbryda's death. Captured Minfilia, put her in rift bondage chains.

What I mean to say is, what I mean by dissolute soul is the other idea presented by Montaichaigne's lecture. That the soul dissipates into aether and is recycled into new souls upon death. It's not deader than dead, because it's the same aether, but the identity is destroyed. Until we see otherwise, that is what happened to Nabriales, and it should be what happened to Haurchefant.