OK, I gotta vent. Are people stupid or... Stupid?

[Mychael]

Quiz Time!!

Why does Wal-Mart sell items cheaper when they can sell them for more?

Quiz time! Why does walmart sell things for 10-20% less than other stores when they could break even or even a make a profit with 50-60% markdowns in many cases?

[Lux_Rayna]

Quiz time! Why does walmart sell things for 10-20% less than other stores when they could break even or even a make a profit with 50-60% markdowns in many cases?

Because ppl that own Wal-Mart wan't to squeeze as much profit as possible while still not allowing room for competition!

Now if you could tell me that magic price where I know for sure someone won't undercut me I'd be happy to sell at it every single time. Unfortunately, in an MMO, I have way more competition than Wal-Mart does. Wal-Mart knows the operating margins of its competitors (its in SEC files), the amount of profit its competitors are making, the lowest price its competitors are likely to sell for, and only has a handful of retail corporations to even worry about.

Please tell me how i can get all that information from every player in the game that can possibly farm or sell ore without hacking into their computers. I'm waiting.


EDIT: Oh, and did I mention Wal-Mart has a legion of wealthy investors that demand as much profit as possible out of the company, or they'll fire the whole board of directors who will be out of a job~ Guess what? I dont have such investors to worry about, isn't life great.

Did you know a professional investor will take a small profit on a stock even tho he could hold longer and potentially sell it for more? I wonder why he does that. Funny thing is those ppl are richer than the ones who wait for the big pay days. There's this thing called scalping, you should look it up. Its an investment term. The results will amaze you.

[Lstkaws]

Quiz time! Why does walmart sell things for 10-20% less than other stores when they could break even or even a make a profit with 50-60% markdowns in many cases?

Median pricing. The market will always search for its median this according to Smith in Wealth of Nations. Walmart will sell its products for the highest profit margin it can. Walmart can still be undercut and is quite often by Target, especially when it comes to food. Targets supplier chain makes it possible for them to often get food at a cheaper price than Walmart. Other products Walmart gets for cheaper and can make a larger margin. Seriously this all pretty common sense stuff. Sell your goods for the lowest profit margin and hope you can make up the difference in volume of sales, or you can sell at a higher margin and not get the volume. You just need to read the market and make the right moves.

[Lux_Rayna]

Median pricing. The market will always search for its median this according to Smith in Wealth of Nations. Walmart will sell its products for the highest profit margin it can. Walmart can still be undercut and is quite often by Target, especially when it comes to food. Targets supplier chain makes it possible for them to often get food at a cheaper price than Walmart. Other products Walmart gets for cheaper and can make a larger margin. Seriously this all pretty common sense stuff. Sell your goods for the lowest profit margin and hope you can make up the difference in volume of sales, or you can sell at a higher margin and not get the volume. You just need to read the market and make the right moves.

I see someone knows their stuff. Kudos!

[Irzibe]

OK so the point is still being missed by many, because apparently we were talking about real life </sarcasm>. So let's do this BACKWARDS:

I lose 1 million gil trying to get a ring+1 because I kept failing the synth (80-90% chance fail remember?) and the materials cost me 200k per attempt.

After the 5th try I make a ring+1 and want to sell it for a profit... God forbid I want to make a decent profit because you know, I LOST 1 MILLION GIL earlier.

Why is my precious ring+1 selling for exactly the same price it costs to make?

Answer me that Lux_Rayna.

Edit: Oh right, let me guess, you're probably gonna say something along the lines "People farmed their own materials! They lost ZERO gil!" Well then if you're such a business man, you should probably know that TIME IS MONEY. Lesson number 1 isn't it? I have a friend that's a Miner50 and he said he gets around 3 ores +1 in a couple of hours or so, and that ring+1 uses 3x ores +1.

[Lstkaws]

OK so the point is still being missed by many, because apparently we were talking about real life </sarcasm>. So let's do this BACKWARDS:

I lose 1 million gil trying to get a ring+1 because I kept failing the synth (80-90% chance fail remember?) and the materials cost me 200k per attempt.

After the 5th try I make a ring+1 and want to sell it for a profit... God forbid I want to make a decent profit because you know, I LOST 1 MILLION GIL earlier.

Why is my precious ring+1 selling for exactly the same price it costs to make?

Answer me that Lux_Rayna.

I will answer this. Once again the answer is........ you guessed it DEMAND! The demand for your +1 ring is too low for you to sell at a profit. QUIT MAKING THEM. To continue making them is foolish. You will continue to lose gil. Supply side economics my friend.

If this was a Chinese game you could just get SE to subsidize your crafting. Maybe you can talk SE into allowing you to NPC your ring for a 10% profit. Still a decent margin in some industries although jewelry is not one of those industries.

[Irzibe]

I will answer this. Once again the answer is........ you guessed it DEMAND! The demand for your +1 ring is too low for you to sell at a profit. QUIT MAKING THEM. To continue making them is foolish. You will continue to lose gil. Supply side economics my friend.

Except I only made the 1 ring and I still can't sell it for more than 10k profit. Again, I refuse to sell something that would've cost me 200k gil loss... for a 10k profit.

[Lstkaws]

Except I only made the 1 ring and I still can't sell it for more than 10k profit. Again, I refuse to sell something that would've cost me 200k gil loss... for a 10k profit.

I can understand that position, and even respect it. In that case you need to be willing to hold that ring until demand rises. If you refuse to sell a current median price, then you must wait.

[Lux_Rayna]

OK so the point is still being missed by many, because apparently we were talking about real life </sarcasm>. So let's do this BACKWARDS:

I lose 1 million gil trying to get a ring+1 because I kept failing the synth (80-90% chance fail remember?) and the materials cost me 200k per attempt.

After the 5th try I make a ring+1 and want to sell it for a profit... God forbid I want to make a decent profit because you know, I LOST 1 MILLION GIL earlier.

Why is my precious ring+1 selling for exactly the same price it costs to make?

Answer me that Lux_Rayna.

Edit: Oh right, let me guess, you're probably gonna say something along the lines "People farmed their own materials! They lost ZERO gil!" Well then if you're such a business man, you should probably know that TIME IS MONEY. Lesson number 1 isn't it?

Dude my first post in this thread was trying to help you. Then you and whatshisface started attacking my POV when all I was stating was the facts that lead to your situation. It became "ppl like you" and all this other nonsense. I was being helpful earlier so I have no idea why you think im here to troll you. I'm just defending myself from attacks I didnt deserve, as the forum has a habit of giving. To answer your question again:

You are buying mats at inflated prices. That is the only reason. I told you this before, ore is a lot more useful than finished products because

1) crafters like you buy it to make items to keep
2) crafters like you buy it to make items to sell
3) crafters like you buy it to level up your skills

In the event that any of your hq items become in high demand, guess what? Electrum ore becomes a loooot more valuable. Of course, you would *think* that it would make finished products more valuable too right? It should, but it doesn't. Because now everyone is flooding the market with finished products. To top it all off, these are "new" items that dont have established normal prices...so anything goes. You will see undercuts galore. And ppl that mined their mats will undercut the most. Too much competition on one item, so price deflates to ridiculous levels. I'm not saying its right, i'm saying thats the way it works. It can work that way because its possible to make something for 0 cost if you put in enough time, unlike the real world.

You're probably wondering why ore doesn't go that low. Its because the demand for ore is greater than the demand for a particular piece of jewelry. Sure an hq ring is great, but only for ppl who want hq rings. What about ppl that want hq gorgets, hq chokers, hq earrings? Bracelets? Ore satisfies all of those ppl, your ring only satisfies one type..the ppl that want a ring. Additionally, hq items have a high chance of failure, meaning you have to buy mats all over again to make it. That means you need more ore, which makes the demand for ore greater. This is why ore can stay at a certain price level, even above finished products. Its counter-intuitive but thats how it works.

EDIT: Also note that ore has been around forever...so it has established/accepted community prices. In games and in the real world, you will find that items will sell at a generally acceptable level, so they are less susceptible to ridiculously low prices or ridiculously high prices. You'll never see electrum selling en masse at 1k, for example. Having a long price history cannot be overlooked lol

What I was trying to tell you in my first post is that you just have to accept it and work around it. Making money or gil is a solo activity, ppl will do whatever it takes to "win" without regard for anyone else. As such, ugly things will happen to crafters like you who aren't careful about what to buy, when to buy it, what to make, and when to sell it. Look at the prices for an item first. Then look at the prices of the mats. It helps if youve always known how much mats have been over the months, but right now its impossible. Estimate what your profit margin will be, conservatively. Factor in a few failures. If its crap, make something else. You have to approach it like a business and plan ahead of time.

I'm not trying to be a demon, I'm trying to help you.

[Irzibe]

Dude my first post in this thread was trying to help you. Then you and whatshisface started attacking my POV when all I was stating was the facts that lead to your situation. It became "ppl like you" and all this other nonsense. I was being helpful earlier so I have no idea why you think im here to troll you. I'm just defending myself from attacks I didnt deserve, as the forum has a habit of giving. To answer your question again:

You are buying mats at inflated prices. That is the only reason. I told you this before, ore is a lot more useful than finished products because

1) crafters like you buy it to make items to keep
2) crafters like you buy it to make items to sell
3) crafters like you buy it to level up your skills

In the event that any of your hq items become in high demand, guess what? Electrum ore becomes a loooot more valuable. Of course, you would *think* that it would make finished products more valuable too right? It should, but it doesn't. Because now everyone is flooding the market with finished products. To top it all off, these are "new" items that dont have established normal prices...so anything goes. You will see undercuts galore. And ppl that mined their mats will undercut the most. Too much competition on one item, so price deflates to ridiculous levels. I'm not saying its right, i'm saying thats the way it works. It can work that way because its possible to make something for 0 cost if you put in enough time, unlike the real world.

You're probably wondering why ore doesn't go that low. Its because the demand for ore is greater than the demand for a particular piece of jewelry. Sure an hq ring is great, but only for ppl who want hq rings. What about ppl that want hq gorgets, hq chokers, hq earrings? Bracelets? Ore satisfies all of those ppl, your ring only satisfies one type..the ppl that want a ring. Additionally, hq items have a high chance of failure, meaning you have to buy mats all over again to make it. That means you need more ore, which makes the demand for ore greater. This is why ore can stay at a certain price level, even above finished products. Its counter-intuitive but thats how it works.

EDIT: Also note that ore has been around forever...so it has established/accepted community prices. In games and in the real world, you will find that items will sell at a generally acceptable level, so they are less susceptible to ridiculously low prices or ridiculously high prices. You'll never see electrum selling en masse at 1k, for example. Having a long price history cannot be overlooked lol

What I was trying to tell you in my first post is that you just have to accept it and work around it. Making money or gil is a solo activity, ppl will do whatever it takes to "win" without regard for anyone else. As such, ugly things will happen to crafters like you who aren't careful about what to buy, when to buy it, what to make, and when to sell it. Look at the prices for an item first. Then look at the prices of the mats. It helps if youve always known how much mats have been over the months, but right now its impossible. Estimate what your profit margin will be, conservatively. Factor in a few failures. If its crap, make something else. You have to approach it like a business and plan ahead of time.

I'm not trying to be a demon, I'm trying to help you.

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but please, go to my original initial post, read it, then read your post that I quoted here and tell me if my original post regarding the final edit at the bottom of the post is true or not.

Just say true or false, don't explain stuff.