Paladin Updates

[Alderton]

Sounds like you party with PLDs that don't know how to use Sentinel, Rampart and Aegis Boon...

WAR has access to Sentinel, Rampart, Foresight, and Featherfoot.

And even if the pld takes less damage overall, it doesn't matter unless your whm runs out of MP. The two take relatively the same amount of damage per hit, but WAR has a larger buffer for the larger attacks.

[Peptaru]

WAR has access to Sentinel, Rampart, Foresight, and Featherfoot.

And even if the pld takes less damage overall, it doesn't matter unless your whm runs out of MP. The two take relatively the same amount of damage per hit, but WAR has a larger buffer for the larger attacks.

You forgot vengeance.... you're welcome.

[Arcell]

Not really o.o WAR takes more dmg. Thats why its HP pool is bigger. And not to be rude but you probably have an easier time on WAR because you are better at WAR, and not as good with PLD. That may be because of some mechanics of the class, or it could just be you. And no matter how you slice it a PLD is easier to heal than a WAR, so I have no idea what those WHMs are thinking. That PLD must not be healing himself because he ran out of mp, which is why they invented ethers lol. PLD should use them and try again!

But really, PLD = less healing. PLD = less dmg. The benefits of a WAR tank are purely about enmity and damage dealt. More room to wait for heals is just incorrect, because it drops farther than on a PLD. On top of that, a WAR can only heal itself with crits, which is much less reliable than PLD self-healing/blocks/etc etc.

PLD = Less damage if we're talking about physical damage and if Defense really worked as well as it should. PLD vs WAR you're trading about 1k HP for 40ish defense, both in full AF. At least before the patch. On strictly physical mobs, it's not bad. On something like Ifrit which does primarily magic damage it's kind of shitty. Defense just doesn't mean as much as it should to really balance out damage taken from Paladin vs Warrior. On multiple occasions I've had some friends who are great tanks tell me to just take straight HP over defense any day.

I played Gladiator more than Marauder, I played Paladin before I played Warrior. I've tried both on Ifrit and I have a much easier time on Warrior. Both geared well enough. I know how to play both well. Paladin just takes more damage from certain mobs and has a lower HP pool. It's not about the ease of healing, it's about all that HP buffer you've got that the Paladin doesn't have. Warrior just isn't in quite as much danger most of the time compared to Paladin.

Paladin = less healing sometimes. I mean the White Mages I roll with are really on top of things and keep me in good health pretty much all the time. I rarely need to cure myself and if I do, as a Paladin I do have that option. However Holy Succor and Cure can't always keep up with the damage you're taking sometimes, not to mention the fact that spells are easily interrupted and as tank you're getting hit constantly.

[Phobos]

Sounds like you party with PLDs that don't know how to use Sentinel, Rampart and Aegis Boon...

None of these compare to what WAR has available to it. I have PLD and am quite capable of using these abilities. While they're nice for defense, I honestly use them more as hate tools. Otherwise, PLD wouldn't even be close to WAR in enmity generation.

And the AF comparison is there as it's the only gear that is exclusive to either job. Any gear you claim you use on PLD that gives it better defense could also be used on WAR.

Also, PLD = Less healing is not true at all; if WHM's could cure your exact HP for an exact MP it would possibly be true. There's a lot of wasted MP in overcures, especially with PLD spending it's MP on cures at the same time as WHM. In fact, PLD can = more healing, because if you have a finicky WHM they'll want you in white 90% of the time, which happens faster to a 100% HP PLD than a 100% HP WAR.

[Peptaru]

My input on Holy Succor: against a pile of mobs you're going to get interrupted a lot, against one thing you should have zero problems timing it between attacks.

[Deltara]

They need to add Job Traits for Jobs, which stack on top of Class Traits. Could easily give PLD Enmity bonus and refresh job traits, as well as expert-shield-blocking traits, etc.

[Arcell]

They need to add Job Traits for Jobs, which stack on top of Class Traits. Could easily give PLD Enmity bonus and refresh job traits, as well as expert-shield-blocking traits, etc.

It may very well happen, considering a level cap increase and a lack of space on our bars. I think they just wanted to give us 5 abilities to play with for now to really flesh the jobs out immediately.

[Alerith]

None of these compare to what WAR has available to it. I have PLD and am quite capable of using these abilities. While they're nice for defense, I honestly use them more as hate tools. Otherwise, PLD wouldn't even be close to WAR in enmity generation.

And the AF comparison is there as it's the only gear that is exclusive to either job. Any gear you claim you use on PLD that gives it better defense could also be used on WAR.

Also, PLD = Less healing is not true at all; if WHM's could cure your exact HP for an exact MP it would possibly be true. There's a lot of wasted MP in overcures, especially with PLD spending it's MP on cures at the same time as WHM. In fact, PLD can = more healing, because if you have a finicky WHM they'll want you in white 90% of the time, which happens faster to a 100% HP PLD than a 100% HP WAR.

If you are having overcuring problems, then there is poor communication between the PLD and the WHM, most likely coming from the PLD. The WHM obviously has the duty as a healer to cure at his/her discretion. The PLD should be the one who is constantly aware of when he/she should be curing themselves or others.

In regards to Holy Succor, it's greatest asset is curing other people when you have light damage. If you only have 400 damage, but your DRG has about 1000 damage, Holy Succor will heal both of you to full (roughly).

Used tactically, Holy Succor could help salvage a bad situation or prevent one from happening. You may have less HP than one of your DD, but if you can Sentinel, then cast Holy Succor, you'll do more good by healing one of your other team mates, because you're moderately protected from the next attack in which you may take only 200 damage but your ally would take 500-700.

NOTE: This next paragraph is speculation since the servers are still down:

Paladin may be able to benefit from Phalanx spam as well, once the Divine Veil update is finished. 20 seconds of solid shield blocking and no cooldown on Phalanx brings us back to the days when Gladiator could put up a buff and spam Phalanx. With the new, halved cooldown on Spirit's Within, that Phalanx spam can combo into a nicely damaging and enmity building combo.

NOTE: Speculation ends here.

WAR does great damage and can tank. Cool. I'm not disputing that fact. Nor am I disputing the fact that they do it better than PLD at this time.

What I am saying is that while PLD and WAR may take roughly the same damage, PLD has more utility in being able to quickly get their HP back up, without the support of a mage if need be. Aegis Boon on a hard hitting, physical TP move can regain everything you've lost from the prior four moves, and still opens up enmity options.

[Phobos]

What I am saying is that while PLD and WAR may take roughly the same damage, PLD has more utility in being able to quickly get their HP back up, without the support of a mage if need be. Aegis Boon on a hard hitting, physical TP move can regain everything you've lost from the prior four moves, and still opens up enmity options.

I see what you're saying for a lot of this, I suppose I just have a lot less utility for Holy Succor because by the time I'm able to get it off, because of either interrupts or having to do something else first (healing is not my #1 priority since it's someone elses #1 priority) my WHM usually cures someone before I can. I'm typically only tanking if I'm on vent with my WHM friend, so communication isn't an issue it's really just more of the whole - WHM cure is guarunteed, PLD cure can be interrupted. He feels safer tossing a cure on one of the DD's or me while I'm curing the same target, so be it.

Either way, that all really boils down to playstyle. Perhaps if stoneskin had a friendlier recast, WHM's would be more apt to throw DD's some stoneskin more often to see if the PLD cures them.

As with your speculation, Divine Veil could also make Holy Succor much more useable as you can count on it not getting interrupted (or do shield blocks not do that?).

PLD being able to get it's HP up faster, though, is simply false. Second Wind is available to WAR but not PLD, and WAR can get two stalling moves to use while waiting for some more cures. PLD gets none of these.

[Firon]

^ Aegis boon....