Paladin Updates

[GreyJorildyn]

But taking less damage isn't important if a healer (or two) can keep a WAR, or any other tank, alive anyway. It's a novelty at that point, and one that we can afford to give up at the moment because of how WAR is designed. You could argue damage formulas place some role as well.

[Firon]

Ill say it once more make all pld combo's so he has to stand in front of the mob, make war drum a normal move that does not need a shield block make it cost 500 tp or something, also give them 500 more hp.

[Aceofspades]

WHM and CON are both realy squishy and there is a constant delema , how many do you need ? cuz the speed in wich the boss is killed greatly effects the chance of success of the party, soo obviously the less heals you need the better off you are, soo essentually your replacing a moderate dd / tank that soaks up MP from the healers with a Heavy tank that (if played properly) should take much fewer cures and add HP to the parties health bar as well) with addition buffs freeing up space for one more heavy DD wich would do more damage then the WAR anyways thus speeding up the same result is a safer manner. I agree however the same can not be said if their were multiple mobs in wich case the PLD couldnt generate enough hate on enough mobs to be an efficient tank.

[Lux_Rayna]

WHM and CON are both realy squishy and there is a constant delema , how many do you need ? cuz the speed in wich the boss is killed greatly effects the chance of success of the party, soo obviously the less heals you need the better off you are, soo essentually your replacing a moderate dd / tank that soaks up MP from the healers with a Heavy tank that (if played properly) should take much fewer cures and add HP to the parties health bar as well) with addition buffs freeing up space for one more heavy DD wich would do more damage then the WAR anyways thus speeding up the same result is a safer manner. I agree however the same can not be said if their were multiple mobs in wich case the PLD couldnt generate enough hate on enough mobs to be an efficient tank.

I think the problem is no one figured out how to play PLD properly, or if they have they havent really made it common knowledge, so the conclusion is WAR > PLD all the time.

Ive always wondered why ppl never just assume they are doing it wrong, and instead decide the class is broken. PLD obviously need improvement, but SE sees a great tank where the community sees a bad one inferior to WAR. I think the developers would know better than us; just gotta wait for someone to figure out how to do it right. Until then, WAR ftw I suppose.

[GreyJorildyn]

Somehow I don't think WAR > PLD has anything to do with players sucking at "figuring out" how to play PLD "the right way". Sounds like white knight propaganda to me. /shrug

[Lux_Rayna]

Somehow I don't think WAR > PLD has anything to do with players sucking at "figuring out" how to play PLD "the right way". Sounds like white knight propaganda to me. /shrug

Actually I think it does lol.

Community has a long history of saying something sucks until miraculously someone sees it do good. Then it becomes the new flavor of the month until a new flavor of the month shows up. After that happens, old flavor of the month returns to sucking. FF fans have been this way since XI.

Remember? Zomg War sucks no one wants you.
*along comes War/Nin*
Zomg! War/NIN > all!!!11!11 LF War/Nin!

Then what happened? No one wanted War/Nin anymore...went back to being teh sucks.

Ninja tank? was Loooool way back when. Then all of a sudden someone does it right, "zomg LF Nin/War!!111!!11"

We could probably do this all day, tracing all the phases of "lol you suck" and then "lol you win" within the span of weeks, months, and years. Even in this game, trend has been no different. Whats even more hilarious is that the community insists it knows what its talking about, despite all the contradictions of "you suck" and "you're awesome" simply because of trends.

Mark when I say it, in a few months PLD will be the flavor of the month and everyone will say WAR is a worse tank than PLD, does less dmg than a DD, so its worthless. The only thing that will have changed is that ppl all of a sudden figured out how to make PLD effective. Watch it happen, and remember you heard it here first.

Ppl also thought melees sucked at Moogle. Then came all melee runs. What? Melees can bum rush through moogle? Impossible! Yup it happened. Community really has no f'in clue what its talking about at any given time. Proof is in all the videos that can dispute every stupid claim the community has ever made. Lol reading the forums alone gives you a good idea.

[GreyJorildyn]

Actually I think it does lol.

Community has a long history of saying something sucks until miraculously someone sees it do good. Then it becomes the new flavor of the month until a new flavor of the month shows up. After that happens, old flavor of the month returns to sucking. FF fans have been this way since XI.

Stuff usually becomes flavor of the month after something in the game has been adjusted or new content shows the viability of something new. You cannot generalize this statement because it lacks context. For example, PGL/MNK was never considered a very great class, but now that Aurum Vale is in and Miser's Mistress takes buttloads of fire damage, suddenly MNK is in. There is always a reason.

Remember? Zomg War sucks no one wants you.
*along comes War/Nin*
Zomg! War/NIN > all!!!11!11 LF War/Nin!

WAR/NIN was always there. Until Ridills, better merits, and adaberks became more readily available/obtained at large, it became a trend. Oh yeah, making stuff like speed belt and the like more available helped too. Again, context.

Then what happened? No one wanted War/Nin anymore...went back to being teh sucks.

Because /SAM and 2h'd weapons were adjusted, making great axe an ideal choice after the Seigan changes. Again, Context. See a pattern?

We could probably do this all day, tracing all the phases of "lol you suck" and then "lol you win" within the span of weeks, months, and years. Even in this game, trend has been no different. Whats even more hilarious is that the community insists it knows what its talking about, despite all the contradictions of "you suck" and "you're awesome" simply because of trends.

Show me a fight where PLD > WAR (context!) and then your argument may hold water. Until then, the imbalance isn't because players are incompetent as you are suggesting.

Mark when I say it, in a few months PLD will be the flavor of the month and everyone will say WAR is a worse tank than PLD, does less dmg than a DD, so its worthless. The only thing that will have changed is that ppl all of a sudden figured out how to make PLD effective. Watch it happen, and remember you heard it here first.

No, there will not be some epiphany moment. What will happen is PLD will get buffed and WAR will get nerfed. THEN people will consider PLD.

Ppl also thought melees sucked at Moogle. Then came all melee runs. What? Melees can bum rush through moogle? Impossible! Yup it happened. Community really has no f'in clue what its talking about at any given time. Proof is in all the videos that can dispute every stupid claim the community has ever made. Lol reading the forums alone gives you a good idea.

I have yet to see a video pre 1.21 patch where anyone speed ran moogle without a full complement of Archers. I think perhaps there was one with 5 archers and a lnc, pgl, or blm but I've never seen less. The speed run was the measuring stick for how well a class performed in that fight. You left that part of the CONTEXT out of your opinion.

All you said was "stuff will change because it will", without any regard to the antecedent reasons for why that change happened at all. Things don't fall off tables by themselves anymore than people decide what the flavor of the month job is because they "feel like it".

[Lux_Rayna]

All you said was "stuff will change because it will", without any regard to the antecedent reasons for why that change happened at all. Things don't fall off tables by themselves anymore than people decide what the flavor of the month job is because they "feel like it".

I'm fairly certain antecedent reasons were just a pretext. Unless we can prove something sucked before, and that change made it awesome. Ppl just assumed something sucked, and change provided a pretext to try something new. For all anyone knows, that thing could have been "good" (not awesome) before that change occurred at all. Small changes cannot make something from "suck" to "awesome." In the community's mind it works that way, but in actuality its pretty hard to believe.

Think about it, axe's were still great with or without those adjustments...the only thing that changed was that they became "ideal". Just because it wasn't "ideal" before didnt mean it sucked...but thats exactly what ppl thought. Community is one big extreme with no regard for the fact that between "suck" and "ideal" are "good, great, superb, and excellent".

And by bum rush I didnt mean speed run, poor choice of words.

[GreyJorildyn]

I'm fairly certain antecedent reasons were just a pretext. Unless we can prove something sucked before, and that change made it awesome. Ppl just assumed something sucked, and change provided a pretext to try something new. For all anyone knows, that thing could have been "good" (not awesome) before that change occurred at all. Small changes cannot make something from "suck" to "awesome." In the community's mind it works that way, but in actuality its pretty hard to believe.

Think about it, axe's were still great with or without those adjustments...the only thing that changed was that they became "ideal". Just because it wasn't "ideal" before didnt mean it sucked...but thats exactly what ppl thought. Community is one big extreme with no regard for the fact that between "suck" and "ideal" are "good, great, superb, and excellent".

And by bum rush I didnt mean speed run, poor choice of words.

/facepalm

If something isn't as "ideal" as something else, no one wants to play that way if they know better. It's the reason why when we see Darklight gear we all say "we want that". No one says "nah even if I could get that, I think I'd rather stick with this Alpine War Jacket". Come on...

[KoujiGeki]

Give Pld an aoe provoke much like flash, an aoe emnity ws, a buff that works like Power surge but works for Defense, an auto refresh. and Pld will be golden IMO