Paladin Updates

[Xianghua]

As Long as Speed Runs are a thing. War will most likely always beat PLD. Taking too much dmg is never an issue in any fight in this game. It's getting the entire parties dps as high as you can. PLD just can't compete in this area and never will.

[Velhart]

Honestly, SE kind of put themselves into this situation by making speed runs in dungeons. If that wasn't the case, people wouldn't be as influenced to take Warrior over Paladin.

But honestly, just making us more magic defense friendly would do wonders. I went in originally thinking WAR would be better with physical damage and PLD having better magic defense. Between the two it is kind of the same and assuming you have a good healer with you, WAR will be the way to go.

This is why I don't like speed runs. It influences people to do whatever they can to make sure it goes as fast as possible. So what is the end result, ruling out those who can't perform as well in DPS. While this may happen even without timers, I think people would be better without.

What did people do in DH? Find best class to do speed run (Mage/ARC DPS). Ifrit had timers, what did people do? Find best type of group (All LNC DPS). What did people in Moogle do? Again (All ARC DPS). If you don't get the pattern yet, it has been all mainly influenced by the timers given to us.

I can't say the end results wouldn't be the same if done differently, but I do want to see what would happen if timers were not a factor in our succession.

[Rydin]

I've got both... and let me tell you....
PLD has more hate potential....

You can hate on that if you like... But it's true....
If someone wants to sit down and do math... thats fine... lets do it

Warrior is the preferred tank because the HP is just... incredible....
That is the ONLY reason....

the biggest and more incredible enmity grabber IN THE GAME......
EVER AND OF ALL TIME IS:
....
........
..........
AOE RAMPART
Couple that with War drum and your Warrior has to do WAY MORE DAMAGE than PLD to have more hate... more damage than what is possible....

Warrior is the tank because Bosses can hit the tank for 3k damage and PLD's HP just isn't ready for that kind of action
But hate for hate... PLD wins... ALL DAY...

Being physically invincible 1/3 of the time (Divine Veil - 20 seconds, 60 second recast) helps a little... but still not safe enough to say I'd go PLD over WAR in a battle

Also... Collusion is just so much more useful than Cover (Not that cover isn't useful)
It's just easier to know when to use collusion. "BLM, you're about to cast Firaga??? ok, collusioning you now"
With cover.... Its like "If I actually loose hate... I'll cover you"

[Alderton]

Extra damage output is pointless if you have to run 2 whms vs. 1 whm. dropping a whm adds another DD job to the mix which by itself will outproduce the warrior tank in raw numbers (unless your second whm was nuking to make up the difference). Everything will be more and more situational as things are nailed down and i'm looking forward to it.

We actually do AV speed runs with only 1 whm as it is, and I'm still tanking on WAR. I'd like to go back to pld, but there's no reason to.

EDIT: Have people actually tested enmity generation with Vengeance? The chat log states that the damage is inflicted by the mob itself, so i've always been suspicious of any enmity generation by the damage caused by the ability.

[Sol_Aureus]

Extra damage output is pointless if you have to run 2 whms vs. 1 whm. dropping a whm adds another DD job to the mix which by itself will outproduce the warrior tank in raw numbers (unless your second whm was nuking to make up the difference). Everything will be more and more situational as things are nailed down and i'm looking forward to it.

I think people are a bit confused on the 2 WHM thing.

People bringing 2 White Mages has nothing to do with the fact that you have a WAR tank. You really don't need 2 WHMs to keep a WAR alive. We take 1 White Mage into AV speed runs (with a WAR tank), and I solo heal the entire run just fine.

Sure, it's a little easier on my healing when a PLD is tanking since they can heal themselves with Holy Succor and can cancel some damaging moves like swipe with a block with Aegis Boon, but that difference in healing difficulty for a PLD vs a WAR is negligible right now, especially considering the extra damage output a WAR gives.

But getting back to my point, people bring 2 White Mages for a lot of reasons: It's easier to divide up the healing (one on tank, the other on DDs), insurance in case one of the White Mages goes down, 2 extra raises in case people die too often, etc. But having a WAR tank is not one of them.

[FraenirVolsung]

I think a very simple way to have improved PLD more than any of these changes made today would have been to take the block requirement away from War Drum. Up the TP requirement to 1000, have the timer at 60 seconds, and make it combo with Shield Bash for extra AoE damage. Even if it did half the damage of WAR's AoE Weapon Skills, enmity + dmg might allow PLD to keep up with handling multiple enemies at once. Having to rely on block for one of only two AoE abilities, when block is already rare on tough enemies, is crippling.

[Firon]

They also need to look into making cross class skills weaker for the other job/class. Like flash should have an 10 sec recast for pld but 35 secs for war this would help pld tank mobs quite easily and also now that i notice you can have sent up for 13 secs on pld then divine vell up for 20secs no dmg which basically makes you take almost nod mg for 30+ secs means that pld will only take a lot of dmg for 30 secs while cool downs are up.

But for the love of god SE let pld do all combo's from the front its a tanking class IT SHOULD NEVER BEHIND THE MOB, THAT'S THE POINT OF THE TANK TO STAY IN FRONT.

[Peptaru]

I think people are a bit confused on the 2 WHM thing.

People bringing 2 White Mages has nothing to do with the fact that you have a WAR tank. You really don't need 2 WHMs to keep a WAR alive. We take 1 White Mage into AV speed runs (with a WAR tank), and I solo heal the entire run just fine.

Sure, it's a little easier on my healing when a PLD is tanking since they can heal themselves with Holy Succor and can cancel some damaging moves like swipe with a block with Aegis Boon, but that difference in healing difficulty for a PLD vs a WAR is negligible right now, especially considering the extra damage output a WAR gives.

But getting back to my point, people bring 2 White Mages for a lot of reasons: It's easier to divide up the healing (one on tank, the other on DDs), insurance in case one of the White Mages goes down, 2 extra raises in case people die too often, etc. But having a WAR tank is not one of them.

Doesn't it depend on how effective the new abilities for Pld are? Pld may be gaining a lot of self-sufficiency, allowing the whm more breathing room, virtually elminating the need to even consider taking a second? Speculation, but at least something worthy of thought. Being able to change jobs is great, too. All it costs is the 15 minute ability which are generally lackluster. There is so much versatility that none of us seem to be messin around with. I'm going to mess with things to find the best set up.

This is all just boss fight talk though, when it comes to clearing trash mobs otw to the bosses, sad to say, warrior still wins no contest.

[Alderton]

I think a very simple way to have improved PLD more than any of these changes made today would have been to take the block requirement away from War Drum. Up the TP requirement to 1000, have the timer at 60 seconds, and make it combo with Shield Bash for extra AoE damage. Even if it did half the damage of WAR's AoE Weapon Skills, enmity + dmg might allow PLD to keep up with handling multiple enemies at once. Having to rely on block for one of only two AoE abilities, when block is already rare on tough enemies, is crippling.

Then GLA would still be better than PLD. They tried to fix the job without also buffing the class.

[FraenirVolsung]

Then GLA would still be better than PLD. They tried to fix the job without also buffing the class.

That's not to say that they shouldn't have adjusted the abilities as they did today. They are all nice improvements. I just meant that PLD needs to be able to handle a crowd if it is going to compete with WAR.