Paladin Updates

[Peptaru]

Extra damage output is pointless if you have to run 2 whms vs. 1 whm. dropping a whm adds another DD job to the mix which by itself will outproduce the warrior tank in raw numbers (unless your second whm was nuking to make up the difference). Everything will be more and more situational as things are nailed down and i'm looking forward to it.

[Alderton]

Extra damage output is pointless if you have to run 2 whms vs. 1 whm. dropping a whm adds another DD job to the mix which by itself will outproduce the warrior tank in raw numbers (unless your second whm was nuking to make up the difference). Everything will be more and more situational as things are nailed down and i'm looking forward to it.

We actually do AV speed runs with only 1 whm as it is, and I'm still tanking on WAR. I'd like to go back to pld, but there's no reason to.

EDIT: Have people actually tested enmity generation with Vengeance? The chat log states that the damage is inflicted by the mob itself, so i've always been suspicious of any enmity generation by the damage caused by the ability.

[Akumu]

EDIT: Have people actually tested enmity generation with Vengeance? The chat log states that the damage is inflicted by the mob itself, so i've always been suspicious of any enmity generation by the damage caused by the ability.

I have not crunched any numbers but I would say it does grant enmity. I have popped Sent(or Antagonize) with vengeance and held 6+ mobs at once while DD were attacking different targets.

It is also listed as a Counter! so I see it as the system has it down like you are doing the damage back at them.

[Alderton]

I have not crunched any numbers but I would say it does grant enmity. I have popped Sent(or Antagonize) with vengeance and held 6+ mobs at once while DD were attacking different targets.

It is also listed as a Counter! so I see it as the system has it down like you are doing the damage back at them.

Ah! Thanks for the observation, even anecdotal. I'll try to give it an actual test when work gives me a proper break. It should be pretty easy. And thanks for the correction on how the log displays it, i'll admit that I never gave it too much attention.

Not completely true. Assuming you haven't had any other "Oh shit" moment, this is the perfect chance to make use of Hallowed Ground > Raise.

Actually, we have, Sol just never likes giving me credit for anything

[Sol_Aureus]

Extra damage output is pointless if you have to run 2 whms vs. 1 whm. dropping a whm adds another DD job to the mix which by itself will outproduce the warrior tank in raw numbers (unless your second whm was nuking to make up the difference). Everything will be more and more situational as things are nailed down and i'm looking forward to it.

I think people are a bit confused on the 2 WHM thing.

People bringing 2 White Mages has nothing to do with the fact that you have a WAR tank. You really don't need 2 WHMs to keep a WAR alive. We take 1 White Mage into AV speed runs (with a WAR tank), and I solo heal the entire run just fine.

Sure, it's a little easier on my healing when a PLD is tanking since they can heal themselves with Holy Succor and can cancel some damaging moves like swipe with a block with Aegis Boon, but that difference in healing difficulty for a PLD vs a WAR is negligible right now, especially considering the extra damage output a WAR gives.

But getting back to my point, people bring 2 White Mages for a lot of reasons: It's easier to divide up the healing (one on tank, the other on DDs), insurance in case one of the White Mages goes down, 2 extra raises in case people die too often, etc. But having a WAR tank is not one of them.

[Peptaru]

I think people are a bit confused on the 2 WHM thing.

People bringing 2 White Mages has nothing to do with the fact that you have a WAR tank. You really don't need 2 WHMs to keep a WAR alive. We take 1 White Mage into AV speed runs (with a WAR tank), and I solo heal the entire run just fine.

Sure, it's a little easier on my healing when a PLD is tanking since they can heal themselves with Holy Succor and can cancel some damaging moves like swipe with a block with Aegis Boon, but that difference in healing difficulty for a PLD vs a WAR is negligible right now, especially considering the extra damage output a WAR gives.

But getting back to my point, people bring 2 White Mages for a lot of reasons: It's easier to divide up the healing (one on tank, the other on DDs), insurance in case one of the White Mages goes down, 2 extra raises in case people die too often, etc. But having a WAR tank is not one of them.

Doesn't it depend on how effective the new abilities for Pld are? Pld may be gaining a lot of self-sufficiency, allowing the whm more breathing room, virtually elminating the need to even consider taking a second? Speculation, but at least something worthy of thought. Being able to change jobs is great, too. All it costs is the 15 minute ability which are generally lackluster. There is so much versatility that none of us seem to be messin around with. I'm going to mess with things to find the best set up.

This is all just boss fight talk though, when it comes to clearing trash mobs otw to the bosses, sad to say, warrior still wins no contest.

[Sol_Aureus]

Doesn't it depend on how effective the new abilities for Pld are? Pld may be gaining a lot of self-sufficiency, allowing the whm more breathing room, virtually elminating the need to even consider taking a second? Speculation, but at least something worthy of thought. Being able to change jobs is great, too. All it costs is the 15 minute ability which are generally lackluster. There is so much versatility that none of us seem to be messin around with. I'm going to mess with things to find the best set up.

This is all just boss fight talk though, when it comes to clearing trash mobs otw to the bosses, sad to say, warrior still wins no contest.

Honestly I don't think the buffs PLD got this update give it the edge it needs. For stuff like Coincounter, sure, it's great. Divine Veil will be awesome for blocking swipes. Unfortunately though, unless they also increased the range of Divine Veil this patch, the healing effect is still not that useful considering the vast majority of the time everyone is out of range of the PLD, so the regen doesn't get much use.

Spirits within's buff is nice, but it's not like PLD had any trouble with hate before. A little extra damage output, but still nowhere close to a WAR.

Cover's buff is nice but not anything significant.

Stuff like Glower is still a huge danger to PLDs, not to mention Chimera. The point stands that because WAR's HP is so much higher than a PLD's and WARs can hold hate just fine AND they can deal significant damage that PLD is still lacking. L

Regarding virtually elminating the need to even consider taking a second WHM, like I said in my post, what class your tank is has virtually nothing to do with why people take 2 WHMs. People will still want to take 2 WHMs for that safety net.

[Jinko]

unless they also increased the range of Divine Veil this patch, the healing effect is still not that useful considering the vast majority of the time everyone is out of range of the PLD, so the regen doesn't get much use.

I've said on a few occasions AoEs need to be Party wide and not Area Effects, it would solve so much of the issue of players being out of range.

It's a bit 90s to have AoE buffs.

[TirionCrey]

Extra damage output is pointless if you have to run 2 whms vs. 1 whm. dropping a whm adds another DD job to the mix which by itself will outproduce the warrior tank in raw numbers (unless your second whm was nuking to make up the difference). Everything will be more and more situational as things are nailed down and i'm looking forward to it.

Try to beat Princess, Chimera and Misers Mistress with 1 WHM...PLDs self heals doesn't make a 2nd WHM obsolete...you still need a 2nd WHM for things like keeping the Party alive on Add phases, which a single WHM can't do plus keep the PLD alive...god people, start thinking pls.