What Zero Could've Been

[Iscah]

You said it means nothing, but yet continue to use it, and to describe people.
So what does it mean, and what is a Zodiark Trancer?
Id love to understand these labels, or your posts in general.

The only times I've seen the phrase "Zodiark Trancer" being used here, it's the anti-Hydaelyn faction claiming it's an insulting label "the other side" uses against them. I am yet to see it actually used as an insult.

Fora (alternate plural for "forums", I assume) knights seem to be anyone who disagrees with them.

I Feel like I got lumped into something I wasn't even apart of.....end of the day Ive come out of this today nothing but confused.
But, it sounds like that was the point. Me trying to understand it and make sense was all part of the game. What it accomplished...guess Ill never know.
GG I guess?....

Do you post on the lore forum? It's all the same torrent of bitterness there, just with different targets, and it seems they've mentally grouped people who disagree with them there and here into one big force against them.

[Silverbane]

It's all the same torrent of bitterness there, just with different targets, and it seems they've mentally grouped people who disagree with them there and here into one big force against them.

Personally, I aspire (imperfectly of course) to disagree with what people post, as opposed to disagreeing with the people per se.
However, I don't think everyone shares that aspiration.

[Theodric]

Personally, I aspire (imperfectly of course) to disagree with what people post, as opposed to disagreeing with the people per se.
However, I don't think everyone shares that aspiration.

You're not alone. I do as much myself and often propose simply agreeing to disagree where common ground cannot be found.

If people are willing to do that? Great. If not, I find myself writing them off by using the ignore function if they're only getting strangely personal and petty with their often bizarre insinuations about people's character and personal views.

Don't you think you're being a bit unfair here? The torrent of vitriol definitely goes both ways, and it frequently comes down hard on any unsuspecting individual unfortunate enough to voice a dissenting opinion. Lumping people into factions for their opinions is an extremely stupid practice.

Mm. I disagree with the attempts to lump people into 'factions'. It's not even applicable in many cases and neither side is a hive mind despite attempts by some to imply otherwise.

[Brinne]

Pandaemonium got me back in "excited" mode so I'm just hoping they don't mess it up.

Pandaemonium was sort of shockingly good and intriguing! I'm probably still not at the point where I'd be exactly "excited" to meet back up with the Scions again - I really did feel "oh god, I need a long break at least" by the end of EW - but one expansion where I felt basically everyone's characterization suffered isn't enough to snuff out the goodwill I have for them as characters over the course of the entire game. It'll be good to see G'raha again when we return to the Twelve raids, and Zero could really go anywhere at this point. She's not an archetype that instantly appeals to me, but that's fine. Characters are more than their aesthetics and archetypes, and she's just getting started.

As much as this game has disappointed me at times, it's also managed to sort of shock me before with how well it's spun story elements around I'd sort of written off as hopeless in terms of making interesting/emotionally compelling--the Ascians pre-ShB, for instance, both as a group and as individuals, and even the Warriors of Darkness and the First itself--so I can't discount the possibility they can do it again, even if EW was a pretty bad blow for me, narratively, in a lot of ways. I'm looking forward to seeing where various threads come together and where they go from here.

[PawPaw]

Pandaemonium was sort of shockingly good and intriguing! I'm probably still not at the point where I'd be exactly "excited" to meet back up with the Scions again - I really did feel "oh god, I need a long break at least" by the end of EW - but one expansion where I felt basically everyone's characterization suffered isn't enough to snuff out the goodwill I have for them as characters over the course of the entire game. It'll be good to see G'raha again when we return to the Twelve raids, and Zero could really go anywhere at this point. She's not an archetype that instantly appeals to me, but that's fine. Characters are more than their aesthetics and archetypes, and she's just getting started.

As much as this game has disappointed me at times, it's also managed to sort of shock me before with how well it's spun story elements around I'd sort of written off as hopeless in terms of making interesting/emotionally compelling--the Ascians pre-ShB, for instance, both as a group and as individuals, and even the Warriors of Darkness and the First itself--so I can't discount the possibility they can do it again, even if EW was a pretty bad blow for me, narratively, in a lot of ways. I'm looking forward to seeing where various threads come together and where they go from here.

Ha! I should clarify that I'm less excited about meeting up with the Scions than I am about just getting back in there and seeing the resolution to the story of Themis and co. They did make me group up with the one Scion I really can't stand, after all, so I'm in no hurry. Sorry, not sorry, Y'shtola.

The new MSQ so far hasn't really grabbed me and Zero isn't the type of character that I'd normally find intriguing, but I'm game to see if her character will become something interesting. She really has just appeared and who knows what they'll do with her going forward.

[Brinne]

Ha! I should clarify that I'm less excited about meeting up with the Scions than I am about just getting back in there and seeing the resolution to the story of Themis and co. They did make me group up with the one Scion I really can't stand, after all, so I'm in no hurry. Sorry, not sorry, Y'shtola.

The new MSQ so far hasn't really grabbed me and Zero isn't the type of character that I'd normally find intriguing, but I'm game to see if her character will become something interesting. She really has just appeared and who knows what they'll do with her going forward.

As far as the Scions go, Y'shtola is indeed the worst and continues to be the worst. The best, at least in EW? Urianger and G'raha got some really good individual scenes, at least, and I think Estinien was mostly fun, if mostly a really, really transparent late fanservice addition. In terms of how much I liked them overall versus how they were used in EW, the twins probably wound up the most unfortunate, sadly.

[PawPaw]

As far as the Scions go, Y'shtola is indeed the worst and continues to be the worst. The best, at least in EW? Urianger and G'raha got some really good individual scenes, at least, and I think Estinien was mostly fun, if mostly a really, really transparent late fanservice addition. In terms of how much I liked them overall versus how they were used in EW, the twins probably wound up the most unfortunate, sadly.

Hmmm, for me, Urianger was the runaway best Scion of EW. G'raha was right behind, I like to pretend Y'shtola doesn't exist and Krile was literally just a puppet. Alisae has been sliding down my ranking list but I still love Alphi, so I enjoyed him. I think the Scion with the least development in EW would have to be Thancred, for me. I adore him, but aside from getting to see him work his cool spy mojo a bit more, I didn't really feel as though he grew much. Sadly, I think that he really did complete his arc back in ShB and there might not be much more left to explore with him.

On the subject of the Scions, does anyone else crave another situation like Heavensward where we just get dropped into the next expansion by ourselves and have to find our own bearings? I really miss that sense of uncertainty and adventure, and when they were pushing the "you're just an adventurer again" idea I rather hoped that's where they might be going. I enjoyed the presence of the Scions in Shadowbringers, but with Endwalker on top of that plus these latest patches after it was teased we'd be saying goodbye to them (did I imagine that?) I've got heavy character fatigue, as with the majority of our quests feeling like a school trip or that I'm packing an entourage with me wherever I go. I'm more than a little fed up of coming up against a new place or character or what have you and rather being able to acquaint myself with it, I have a Scion loudly shouting down my ear who or what they think it might be.

I would have loved a bit of a vacation from the Scions. Especially after EW when I really was just over everyone and everything and just wanted to be alone for a bit. You didn't imagine it and they really wasted no time in dropping us right back into the same old, same old. I'd really appreciate a quest line or an EP that allowed us to have that sense of independence again. Even if only for a while. I guess the inclusion of Trusts means that we always need to be surrounded by at least 3-4 people who can act as party members now?

[Absimiliard]

Stuff

Don't you think you're being a bit unfair here? The torrent of vitriol definitely goes both ways, and it frequently comes down hard on any unsuspecting individual unfortunate enough to voice a dissenting opinion. Lumping people into factions for their opinions is an extremely stupid practice.

[Iscah]

Don't you think you're being a bit unfair here? The torrent of vitriol definitely goes both ways, and it frequently comes down hard on any unsuspecting individual unfortunate enough to voice a dissenting opinion. Lumping people into factions for their opinions is an extremely stupid practice.

The torrent goes both ways (and I am incredibly tired of it) but only one side of the torrent is here in this topic calling names and lumping in people who disagree with them here as being part of a team with people who disagree with them in a separate subforum.

[Absimiliard]

The torrent goes both ways (and I am incredibly tired of it) but only one side of the torrent is here in this topic calling names and lumping in people who disagree with them here as being part of a team with people who disagree with them in a separate subforum.

I don't know if I'd say that. It looks to me like there's been plenty of back and forth. Granted, there are a couple outliers in this thread for certain. At any rate, it's tiresome. If no one is allowed to speak on the forums without getting torn to shreds over their position, why even bother?

Don't like the Scions? Instant ad hominem.
Don't like Venat? Same thing. Criticizing her is the equivalent of shoving your head into a hornet's nest.
Don't like Zodiark? Same thing.
Don't like the Ancients? Yep, that too.
Emet-Selch? Not liking him is like signing a waiver saying you'd like to be the online equivalent of a punching bag.

A small group of posters are really bad about turning everything into a personal attack. The majority just try to work around it as best they can, lest they get dragged in as well. Then to add to this you've got another small group of posters that choose to communicate in bad faith, knowingly making disingenuous statement after disingenuous statement for no reason other than... well, I don't actually know the reason, but I'm sure there is one. The same posters with a tendency to choose disingenuous language also tend to look for problems where none exist. Doesn't help anyone.