What Zero Could've Been

[Absimiliard]

I could certainly do without the Scions for a while. Whether you love them or hate them, oversaturation is a thing. We've been dealing extensively with them for quite some time now. Why not roll out some solo adventures for the Warrior of Light? Perhaps they could explore what it means to be Azem and begin wandering the world alone, helping whenever warranted. We already know the game is set up such that the WoL will generally do whatever is asked of them. This could add some proper meaning to their seemingly overly obliging nature.

No world-ending threats, no higher callings, and definitely no Eorzean Alliance constantly hounding the WoL to come help because they got a little bloody nose from the latest primal mess they undoubtedly brought on themselves. Just one stronk individual wandering, helping, and generally exploring the world at large. Maybe even start throwing in some choices that actually matter along the way.

[RukoBoshi]

On the subject of the Scions, does anyone else crave another situation like Heavensward where we just get dropped into the next expansion by ourselves and have to find our own bearings? I really miss that sense of uncertainty and adventure, and when they were pushing the "you're just an adventurer again" idea I rather hoped that's where they might be going. I enjoyed the presence of the Scions in Shadowbringers, but with Endwalker on top of that plus these latest patches after it was teased we'd be saying goodbye to them (did I imagine that?) I've got heavy character fatigue, as with the majority of our quests feeling like a school trip or that I'm packing an entourage with me wherever I go. I'm more than a little fed up of coming up against a new place or character or what have you and rather being able to acquaint myself with it, I have a Scion loudly shouting down my ear who or what they think it might be.

I definitely agree. I love the Scions, but i also want new characters. I would be glad if they took a step back (well most of them) to give way for new characters.

I don't want them to be write out of the story, but to fills the role the alliance leaders or Cid have : important characters that appears once in a while to help.

At best i would keep 2 or 3 of them max.
Estinien and G'raha since they haven't been here for long. And i would add Zero, Lorens from endwalker role quest, and Fordola maybe ?
We could also get 1 or 2 new characters in the new expansion.

The idea would be to have characters from differents background, that have a common objectives, but their own goals and way of thinking.
Because the 5 scholars from Sharlayan we have right now tend to always agree on the same things and are interchangeable in most scenes.

[Rannie]

Hmm I'd rather Alphinaud and Alisaie be put on the back burner like they currently are for maybe an expansion or two, I'm finding running with the other scions a bit more pleasant. Don't get me wrong I don't hate the twins but we have been with him since half way through Arr and his sister was pretty much end of HW and on. I'm actually enjoying running with the Y'shtola the others

[SassyAssassin]

Exactly what Sanna said.

Nobody has a problem with him or whoever wants to look at attractive characters.

Its ok to want attractive characters in games, but OP takes it to an extreme asking every character to be attractive to his standards and if not, then the character shouldn’t act a certain way because they aren’t attractive enough to “pull it off”.

That’s his opinion first of all. There are a lot of men out there crazy about Yshtola.

Secondly, it’s the reason he is being labelled as “misogynistic” which honestly I can’t understand why so many of you defend.

Saying a woman should not deny a man because she’s not hot enough is messed up and there are no mental gymnastics you can do to justify that.

Thirdly, just as he is allowed to say he wants the fairytale woman/man we are allowed to say we don’t. Or did he post on a public forum expecting everyone to give into his opinion and agree?

Its a game with a lot of npcs. Not every npc will look the way one forum member wants, nor should they.

Plus don’t act like you don’t have enough good looking male or female characters in game, if that’s so important to you. Go make an au ra male character and stare at his nipple-less chest idk what to tell you at this point.

And no the scions are not my first choice of in game “friends” either but I still enjoy seeing that the characters are different and not what I expected in the end, whether good or bad.

I loved Hermes but everyone detests him and honestly thats ok, I wont be thinking of the forum members when I play the game. I still can’t make my mind about Venat and that’s fine for me as well. I don’t want inherently good or bad characters, a definite hero or vilan, Id get very bored of the same story after so many expansions. And again thats MY opinion.

You can agree, disagree or troll, it’s neither here nor there, plus I think we threw the whole high horse, mature pretense out of the window once we all started crying on the forum because the pixels are not hot enough so you’re not fooling anyone.

[Brinne]

I loved Hermes but everyone detests him and honestly thats ok

hermes rules but i'm pretty sure i love him for largely the same reasons other people hate him! if you haven't seen it, a poster named lurina made did an excellent writeup analyzing him and how people as an audience perceive him. the rest of the thread quickly descends into trainwreck territory, but.

[SassyAssassin]

hermes rules but i'm pretty sure i love him for largely the same reasons other people hate him! if you haven't seen it, a poster named lurina made did an excellent writeup analyzing him and how people as an audience perceive him. the rest of the thread quickly descends into trainwreck territory, but.

Oh thank you I’ll definitely check that out!
For me the man had a point, once I saw him be sad for killing “flawed” creatures that was it, instant heart eyes.

[tokinokanatae]

My problem with the MSQ this time was Y'shtola, but mainly because I felt like she sort of sucked the air out of the room.

Her interactions with Zero were given the primary focus--even though I could very easily see Zero having interesting dynamics with the other two as well as Y'shtola. For example, Estinien on the surface likes to act a lot like Zero, pretending that his friendship towards us (and now the other Scions/Vrtra) isn't as much of a factor in his actions as it actually is. I'd like to see Zero put him on the spot by asking him what he's "getting" out of coming to the Void. And, for Vrtra, considering the amount of aether he has, I would have found it interesting if she insisted on him being the primary feeder for the deals Y'shtola brokers, or even Vrtra getting frustrated with her transactional nature when they got more concrete word regarding his sister and she wants to haggle down to the last drop of aether what they can and can't expect from her.

I've said in the past I feel like the writers sort of rely on Y'shtola in a way I don't like, namely to use her as a narrative device to explain locales or new functions of magic to us. This means her "hunches" or "theories" tend to be "fact" nine times out of ten, instead of something she has to refine and work on as she gains more knowledge. I would have liked to see the Void be a struggle for her to navigate or something to throw her more off guard than she was. Something that makes her feel like she's also going with us into uncharted waters, instead of acting as our all-knowing navigator through them. I don't mind her and Zero having a unique bond in theory--and there's certainly time for the others to get their own with Zero--but I will confess 6.2 MSQ did leave me a little colder overall than I would have liked going into 6.3.

[Brinne]

My problem with the MSQ this time was Y'shtola, but mainly because I felt like she sort of sucked the air out of the room.

Her interactions with Zero were given the primary focus--even though I could very easily see Zero having interesting dynamics with the other two as well as Y'shtola. For example, Estinien on the surface likes to act a lot like Zero, pretending that his friendship towards us (and now the other Scions/Vrtra) isn't as much of a factor in his actions as it actually is. I'd like to see Zero put him on the spot by asking him what he's "getting" out of coming to the Void. And, for Vrtra, considering the amount of aether he has, I would have found it interesting if she insisted on him being the primary feeder for the deals Y'shtola brokers, or even Vrtra getting frustrated with her transactional nature when they got more concrete word regarding his sister and she wants to haggle down to the last drop of aether what they can and can't expect from her.

I've said in the past I feel like the writers sort of rely on Y'shtola in a way I don't like, namely to use her as a narrative device to explain locales or new functions of magic to us. This means her "hunches" or "theories" tend to be "fact" nine times out of ten, instead of something she has to refine and work on as she gains more knowledge. I would have liked to see the Void be a struggle for her to navigate or something to throw her more off guard than she was. Something that makes her feel like she's also going with us into uncharted waters, instead of acting as our all-knowing navigator through them. I don't mind her and Zero having a unique bond in theory--and there's certainly time for the others to get their own with Zero--but I will confess 6.2 MSQ did leave me a little colder overall than I would have liked going into 6.3.

Probably one of the more grating things about Y'shtola in 6.2 - that unfortunately did drag Zero down a bit along with her - is the way she, multiple times, happily "got one up" on Zero in ways that felt childish or made no sense (in the case of 'we gave you your name so we you have to repay us') or even weirdly unfair ('we promised you dragon aether but gave you apples') and it always worked without issue. It's one of those cases where I could see the writer strings tugging in terms of "see how clever Y'shtola is?" and Zero being yanked around somewhat as a narrative puppet to accommodate that. I realize part of the point was also to illustrate that Zero wasn't as hardened as she presented herself, but the way it was done felt pretty contrived to me.

[Lunaxia]

Something that makes her feel like she's also going with us into uncharted waters, instead of acting as our all-knowing navigator through them. I don't mind her and Zero having a unique bond in theory--and there's certainly time for the others to get their own with Zero--but I will confess 6.2 MSQ did leave me a little colder overall than I would have liked going into 6.3.

Excellent post, and puts into words why Y'shtola has bothered me for a while, especially the part I quoted.

I remember especially during one of our talks with the Watcher during the EW MSQ getting irritated with the way she was addressing him. Hello, you're talking to someone (well, sort of) thousands of years old from a world beyond ours about a history lost to the ages who has seen and known things far beyond your comprehension while we're stood on a secret base on the moon we never even knew existed, could you possibly not talk to him like you would some petulant schoolboy you're questioning in the street and have some vague semblance of emotion about you?

[tokinokanatae]

I remember especially during one of our talks with the Watcher during the EW MSQ getting irritated with the way she was addressing him. Hello, you're talking to someone (well, sort of) thousands of years old from a world beyond ours about a history lost to the ages who has seen and known things far beyond your comprehension while we're stood on a secret base on the moon we never even knew existed, could you possibly not talk to him like you would some petulant schoolboy you're questioning in the street and have some vague semblance of emotion about you?

This speaks to another frustration I have with her: she never seems all that excited to learn new things.

Take G'raha circa Crystal Tower, for example. He was upset at having to allow us to clear out the dangerous sections before the scientists could have their turn to inspect and test parts of the Tower. He was so excited over the idea of seeing new things related to his specialization that it was a part of his characterization.

But Y'shtola never seems to react that way. I'm not saying she has to be sulky over not getting to be among the first to see something in the same way G'raha is, but about the ony thing I can ever remember wow-ing her is maybe Amaurot? For the rest, she seems remarkably detached and unphased by anything new that happens to her or even comes across her path.