What Zero Could've Been

[Kazhar]

To be fair to aveyond, his takes about attractiveness are also applied to male characters.
So it's less about misogyny and more about him wanting hot characters in general.

[aveyond-dreams]

To be fair to aveyond, his takes about attractiveness are also applied to male characters.
So it's less about misogyny and more about him wanting hot characters in general.

Indeed. I don't buy video games or watch stuff that has characters that don't look appealing, and with character customization options so limited in this game the least they could do is spend some time making our party members look decent, while accounting for a variety of tastes. The women of FFXIV's main cast don't do this, and neither do the men.

Usually anyone can find at least one character that they're drawn to when it comes to narrative-heavy media like FFXIV is, but unless you like scholars with short white hair or whatever G'raha Tia is supposed to be it seems like I'm out of luck. Bar the exit of Y'shtola from the party and her replacement being the sort of heroine I've described in the past, I don't see how Zero or god forbid Krile will bring anything of substance to the table besides magic gizmos to instafix our problems.

[Ransu]

Indeed. I don't buy video games or watch stuff that has characters that don't look appealing, and with character customization options so limited in this game the least they could do is spend some time making our party members look decent, while accounting for a variety of tastes. The women of FFXIV's main cast don't do this, and neither do the men.

Usually anyone can find at least one character that they're drawn to when it comes to narrative-heavy media like FFXIV is, but unless you like scholars with short white hair or whatever G'raha Tia is supposed to be it seems like I'm out of luck. Bar the exit of Y'shtola from the party and her replacement being the sort of heroine I've described in the past, I don't see how Zero or god forbid Krile will bring anything of substance to the table besides magic gizmos to instafix our problems.

Your take is entirely subjective for everyone so the conversation about it is completely a moot point.

[Silverbane]

I ... the least they [CBU3] could do is spend some time making our party members look decent, while accounting for a variety of tastes.

I guess you haven't heard, but there's no accounting for taste. It's innumerable.

You have such weird views on women, man.

Do they? When it comes to a norm for female attractiveness, looked at historically, there isn't much of one.
Generally, it seems to come down to either "look like you're rich," "look built to bear children," or a combination thereof.
And that covers a lot of ground, from beyond Rubenesque to the flappers of the 1920's.*

*Thoroughly Modern Millie contains an amusing bit where Julie Andrew's character Millie is jealous of Mary Tylor Moore's character Dorothy because Dorothy's "beads" -- a long necklace -- "hang straight" on Dorothy's more modest chest.

[Padudu]

I guess you haven't heard, but there's no accounting for taste. It's innumerable.

Do they? When it comes to a norm for female attractiveness, looked at historically, there isn't much of one.
Generally, it seems to come down to either "look like you're rich," "look built to bear children," or a combination thereof.
And that covers a lot of ground, from beyond Rubenesque to the flappers of the 1920's.*

*Thoroughly Modern Millie contains an amusing bit where Julie Andrew's character Millie is jealous of Mary Tylor Moore's character Dorothy because Dorothy's "beads" -- a long necklace -- "hang straight" on Dorothy's more modest chest.

I mean, yeah they do have incredibly weird views of women. Especially when their other thread about wanting "strong women" in XIV was actually just wanting more attractive, long-haired females like Xenia the Warrior Princess lol. And that too muscled off women (like Roes) would detract from the current male cast.

I just wish the sort of attitude and dynamic she brings could've gone to a male cast member instead. FFXIV women are oftentimes too "strong" without a sufficient arc leading up to that level of empowerment or confidence while the men are either jokes or hung up on a set of emotions like Vrtra is, and it's not doing anyone any favors.

Like, what is that even supposed to mean lmao. Women can't be strong or have dominant qualities unless they pass the aveyond vibe check? We see edgy, strong characters in XIV because they just can be lol - looking at you Zenos and everyone in the DRK quest line.

Like the dude obviously has a type of women he wants to see lmao. Attractiveness is whatever and it's completely subjective to not even have a point really. But saying they ALL need to have compelling backstories as an excuse to having strong/stoic/ect whatever personalities and Y'shtola cannot act snarky towards men because of her lack of a character arc (which honestly, most of the characters don't have much of an arc or even a compelling character arc) is just weird fam. Don't know why you'd defend that unless you vibe with being told you need to act submissive until aveyond tells you, "Oh Silverbane, you've suffered enough in your life so you can now act negatively towards men. Congrats!" lol

[Padudu]

Essentially: why be so against that? Some people would actually like to have that, just as much as you'd like to have literally anything else. And there isn't anything inherently wrong with it either. What would be wrong is if Aveyond started saying that every female character and every male character needed to behave like that. Which isn't realistic and is just pushing dumb values everywhere. I'm all for more representation and people of varying outlooks and personal strengths, so I don't see the problem with "strong man protects weak girl" because if I reversed the roles, they'd be in the same dynamic. Yet people react like it's going to undo centuries of women empowerment in society... which, again, it only would promote that sort of thing if that were the only dynamic the story presented.

But when this idea is so much as even suggested, people go haywire. When there's really not much of a need for that? It's even a fantasy some enjoy, women included. Unless the story portrays their characters exclusively in such a dynamic, it doesn't emasculate the guy or remove agency from the woman by having one be strong and the other dramatic. (Before anyone asks "who's 'some'", I point to the amount of women who adore Cottagecore, which is heavily rooted in old 50's values which did force those standards on women and men)

I point you to the most obvious dynamic: Thancred & Ryne.

People DO like that dynamic when it's done well. Ryne was - quite literally - a useless reincarnation magical girl who didn't do anything in the beginning but just kind of sit there and watch. Thancred protects her as he did Minfilia, and at the same time, taught her to be her own person. She does eventually become her own person who makes her own choices. That dynamic is completely fine actually and even at the time -- the story makes sense as to why it goes that route. In the end, it doesn't look like she continues fighting or anything like that. She and Gaia help out in the Crystarium and eat some coffee biscuits together. While she fought, she settled down in the end and just does her best to look after her friends. That seems still strong for me - she chose to live that way and she's found some peace.

Same with the RDM quest line. Anya and X'hrun (I'm probably spelling his name wrong, but ya get what I mean lol) also have that dynamic. You and the old cat protect Anya the whole way through until she learns to fend for herself. She gets over her fears and becomes stronk. Things like that.

I think most of the contention here, at least in this thread, is aveyond's tone really, really borderlines incel/niceguy levels lol. There's nothing wrong with requesting more "strong guy/weak girl" dynamics, really. What is wrong is saying that many women in the story except for Yotsuyu apparently is written bad because they act a little mean towards guys. And yeah honestly just take a look at his other threads about this.

[SassyAssassin]

Oka

Ironically my real life style is of the romantic sort, so you aren’t talking to someone that will take your words personally, but here is my opinion since you asked.

There is nothing against that but in case you haven’t noticed he complains about every character ever made, like dude at this point make your own game or shut up.

And my problem with it personally is that I am sick and tired of the little blond girl being saved by the burly man as much as I am tired of the super strong independent woman who doesn’t need a man.
It goes both ways. It’s beyond boring and we have enough of both narratives going around in movies and games.

He is constantly reducing women to having to be nice to male characters, emotional and in love like ok?…..Much personality?

He says Yshtola doesn’t look good enough to have the attitude she has with Magnai like please tell me you are a neckbeard without saying you are a neckbeard.
According to him if a woman doesn’t look like his standards she should shut up, bow down and accept any advances made to her?
Creepy much?

I want characters to feel REAL, Im sick of fairytales, read them enough as a child and Im glad ffxiv doesn’t go that route.

I think they made more than enough variation of soft women, strong women, annoying women, soft men, strong men etc etc. at this point the guy just complains for the sake of complaining.

I really dont think that the way you look at it, is the way he does, seriously give it a few months and you’ll see yet another post of him being salty Yshtola didnt go in the tent with the big aura man.