Tales from the Dawn #4: "A Question of Death" (Jullus)

[SentioftheHoukai]

Nice way to fan the flames and bring up said topic many are tired of retreading

Gonna have to call Goobue Poo on this one, new-old friend. We certainly weren't the ones who mentioned how funny it would be to see a holiday based on cultural erasure. Not that the Garleans have much culture left to erase~

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's not gonna stop being offensive any time soon, these double standards. Of that, I can assure you.

That's not what happens normally. There might be a fight for independence to free themselves. Slaves in America didn't up and kill all the white people after the civil war. After the fighting died down in Hati, they didn't go hunting down any french people as two examples from the real world. So yes, As it was stated in game already, nobody cares about making the Garleans suffer.

Pretty sure they stated the polar opposite (psst psst, Ilsabard Contingent), but you go ahead and believe whatever you darn well please. That is your right as a sovereign citizen and general overall human being.

Just to put this thing to bed real quick. Nobody but the Garlean's care about ceruleum So no one would be invading them for that. The garleans used it to heat their homes before they used it in weapons to make up for not being able to use magic. Using fantasy oil just sounds like extra steps when you can cast fire1 if your cold at night.

I'm sorry, but who are you to "put this topic to bed" anyway? Say what you will, nobody's obligated to cease speaking of a frankly rather relevant topic merely because one poster finds it distasteful. Also, we have a literal mountain (a ceruleum and Magitek mountain, also known as Garlond Ironworks) proving this is simply not the case. What precisely do you imagine the airships that Eorzea hath since grown fond of runs off of since their introduction into polite society, anyway? Merely curious.

[AwesomeJr44]

So yes, As it was stated in game already, nobody cares about making the Garleans suffer.

Wasn't there a massive plot point in the Garlemald section of the MSQ about how literally everyone wanted to just kill the Garleans and the Scions had to convince them not to? And I'm pretty sure that even though the Eorzeans in the contingent there got over that (and even then, not entirely), you still have... *checks notes* literally everyone else still wanting to.

[Theodric]

Wasn't there a massive plot point in the Garlemald section of the MSQ about how literally everyone wanted to just kill the Garleans and the Scions had to convince them not to? And I'm pretty sure that even though the Eorzeans in the contingent there got over that (and even then, not entirely), you still have... *checks notes* literally everyone else still wanting to.

We also saw it with the end of the Dragonsong War with many Ishgardians still desiring vengeance for their fallen and working from the shadows to undermine attempts at forging peace with the Dravanians.

We also see it in the present day in our world with people using social media to rant about things that happened before they were even born and demanding 'retribution' and 'reparations' from people who have no direct ties to the supposed misdeeds in question.

[AwesomeJr44]

I'm sorry, but who are you to "put this topic to bed" anyway? Say what you will, nobody's obligated to cease speaking of a frankly rather relevant topic merely because one poster finds it distasteful.

Whoa whoa whoa! Senti! That's no random poster! That's the Great Oatmeal! You should show him more respect and let him put topics to bed if he wishes, lest he use the power of oats against you!

We also saw it with the end of the Dragonsong War with many Ishgardians still desiring vengeance for their fallen and working from the shadows to undermine attempts at forging peace with the Dravanians.

We also see it in the present day in our world with people using social media to rant about things that happened before they were even born and demanding 'retribution' and 'reparations' from people who have no direct ties to the supposed misdeeds in question.

True, we've seen this in-game before AND in our real world many times before. I'm not sure why some think that anti-Garlean discrimination wouldn't be a concern for the displaced Garleans going forwards. I think people have a problem understanding that an oppressor can very easily become the oppressed after their power has been removed. That's exactly what happened when the Garlean empire came to power. The people who were the oppressors, oppressing the Garleans, became the oppressed as the Garleans sought revenge. It is very possible that this happens again in the future, with anti-Garlean discrimination once more pushing the Garleans into a corner where they create another empire.

[Lauront]

That's not what happens normally. There might be a fight for independence to free themselves. Slaves in America didn't up and kill all the white people after the civil war. After the fighting died down in Hati, they didn't go hunting down any french people as two examples from the real world. So yes, As it was stated in game already, nobody cares about making the Garleans suffer.

Just to put this thing to bed real quick. Nobody but the Garlean's care about ceruleum So no one would be invading them for that. The garleans used it to heat their homes before they used it in weapons to make up for not being able to use magic. Using fantasy oil just sounds like extra steps when you can cast fire1 if your cold at night.

I've no idea what you think it is you're "putting to bed" but...

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Blue_Gold#Dialogue

Granted, this particular merchant changes his plans as to where he intends to source it from, but it's evident from the quest dialogue he is not alone in this interest in ceruleum and its applications.

[Denishia]

We certainly weren't the ones who mentioned how funny it would be to see a holiday based on cultural erasure. Not that the Garleans have much culture left to erase~

The Garleans conquered people and regions in Ilsabard, Othard, and Aldenard that were not Garlean (even Corvos was pointed out in-game contrary to Garlean claims to have people that claimed it as a homeland long before the Garleans and whom were still living there when the Garleans invaded). The Garleans actively engaged in cultural erasure; that’s one of their Empire’s core characteristics (and the first religion and traditional government and practices like Jobs that was suppressed was their own). So yes, that the other conquered Garlean regions will be like Dalmasca, Doma, Werlyt, Bozja, Corvos, Ala Mhigo, and Xangia is something I will be pleased with. And they all have rightful reason to resent their conquerors or not, and there is a plethora of ways to take the story of their liberations and how they chart their post-Imperial freedom. Landros for example tried to conquer its neighbors and be Imperial Garlemald lite. The countries aligned with the Scions, so far, haven’t. And the Scion-allied Eorzean Alliance is right now in Garlemald itself explicitly to protect the Garleans there from being exploited or invaded by others. Time will tell if that effort is successful or continues. Or what stories FFXIV wishes to tell outside its borders, if it’s not a rehash of what’s already been done with all of Stormblood, Ivalice, Bozja, and Werlyt.

[SentioftheHoukai]

The Garleans conquered people and regions in Ilsabard, Othard, and Aldenard that were not Garlean (even Corvos was pointed out in-game contrary to Garlean claims to have people that claimed it as a homeland long before the Garleans and whom were still living there when the Garleans invaded). The Garleans actively engaged in cultural erasure; that’s one of their Empire’s core characteristics (and the first religion and traditional government and practices like Jobs that was suppressed was their own). So yes, that the other conquered Garlean regions will be like Dalmasca, Doma, Werlyt, Bozja, Corvos, Ala Mhigo, and Xangia is something I will be pleased with. And they all have rightful reason to resent their conquerors or not, and there is a plethora of ways to take the story of their liberations and how they chart their post-Imperial freedom. Landros for example tried to conquer its neighbors and be Imperial Garlemald lite. The countries aligned with the Scions, so far, haven’t. And the Scion-allied Eorzean Alliance is right now in Garlemald itself explicitly to protect the Garleans there from being exploited or invaded by others. Time will tell if that effort is successful or continues. Or what stories FFXIV wishes to tell outside its borders, if it’s not a rehash of what’s already been done with all of Stormblood, Ivalice, Bozja, and Werlyt.

Ah, whataboutisms and "they deserved it, for they were the oppressors not us, never us."

You love to see it.~ ;3

Frankly, it doesn't matter if Garlemald didn't live in Corvos first. What matters is that they lived there, and we have evidence they were pushed out by violence fueled by envy. What we do not have evidence for, is that they conquered to get in. Not the first time. But I waste my breath, for I speak to the same manner of poster who'd try and rationalize that the displaced pre-Empire Garleans had no right to hold a grudge, build an Empire, and do unto others what was done to them.

And so I inquire, where is that attitude and rationalization now? Now that the coin hath been flipped, where is the forgiveness, the insight, the mercy?

The FORGE AHEAD~

Did it go somewhere? Or perhaps, was it never there to begin with?

[AwesomeJr44]

And they all have rightful reason to resent their conquerors or not

If only people extended the same logic to the Garleans and realized that the Garleans were treated like trash before they were forced up into a barren wasteland in the north. I wonder if people would thus extend the same treatment they give Garlemald to other nations and say that they deserved what they got from Garlemald and that Garlemald has a rightful reason to resent them...

Garleans: *get oppressed*
Fora Knights: Good! You deserve it! Forge ahead losers!
Any other nation: *get oppressed*
Fora Knights: Those dang Garleans!!!

The FORGE AHEAD~

*clears throat* "FoOoOOooORRRrrrrRrGgGGGgEEeEeeE AhhHhhHhhEeeEEeAaaAAaaDDDdDddD!!!!!!!"

[4clubbedace]

The Garleans conquered people and regions in Ilsabard, Othard, and Aldenard that were not Garlean (even Corvos was pointed out in-game contrary to Garlean claims to have people that claimed it as a homeland long before the Garleans and whom were still living there when the Garleans invaded). The Garleans actively engaged in cultural erasure; that’s one of their Empire’s core characteristics (and the first religion and traditional government and practices like Jobs that was suppressed was their own). So yes, that the other conquered Garlean regions will be like Dalmasca, Doma, Werlyt, Bozja, Corvos, Ala Mhigo, and Xangia is something I will be pleased with. And they all have rightful reason to resent their conquerors or not, and there is a plethora of ways to take the story of their liberations and how they chart their post-Imperial freedom. Landros for example tried to conquer its neighbors and be Imperial Garlemald lite. The countries aligned with the Scions, so far, haven’t. And the Scion-allied Eorzean Alliance is right now in Garlemald itself explicitly to protect the Garleans there from being exploited or invaded by others. Time will tell if that effort is successful or continues. Or what stories FFXIV wishes to tell outside its borders, if it’s not a rehash of what’s already been done with all of Stormblood, Ivalice, Bozja, and Werlyt.

half and half

the garleans were native to the island that had the clocktower in the ivalice raids, which in its all, is a hume/garlean story, itself being close proximity to corvos. Corvos had people there from when allag fell. Its noted that garleans were rather a weak people UNTILL the empire. Till then garleans for a few centuries came to know corvos home like others but at a certain point, were pushed out from this area but unlike others, could not use magic or aether and could not defend themselves without turning to voidsent. The garleans themselves had their resentment used by the ascians , emet himself to cause that destruction the empire later caused, it was always going to end with a massive civil war or garlmald imploding. they have no leadership, no government, no military.

[RyuDragnier]

Just realized I haven't posted my thoughts on the story. I rather liked it, as it was somber, brought back to forefront how the Garleans have a long road ahead of them, and seemed to hint that we'll have more story in Garlemald in the future. Hopefully a Restoration area, if not a full blown sidequest/expansion dealing with them. I hope to see more of Jullus in the future.