Healing Spells You Do Not Mind Being Removed in PvE

[Zolvolt]

Energy drain on sch.

So tired of getting players that don't know how to use their other aetherflow abilities because of fflogs.
Sage actually does aetherflow correctly with no dps dump ability and sage players are more often better than sch players this tier.

[Supersnow845]

Energy drain on sch.

So tired of getting players that don't know how to use their other aetherflow abilities because of fflogs.
Sage actually does aetherflow correctly with no dps dump ability and sage players are more often better than sch players this tier.

In exchange SGE has zero optimisations and is boring as hell to play, at least ED gives SCH players something to play around with

[IceBlueNinja]

In exchange SGE has zero optimisations and is boring as hell to play, at least ED gives SCH players something to play around with

we have phelgma and toxicon..so that does give something for sages to play around with lol. Sch is the most boring healer and is the only healer that is trash at big pulls. I can handle big pulls no problem with ast/whm or even sage , anytime i try big pull with sch its just a stress wipe mess , pre casting is boring and unfun i love instant things. least even spamming E diag can work better to keep tank up (well dark night) as really I dont need to press no heals on warrior and maybe only 1 to 2 heals on a pld/gnb. sage is actually awarded more for their ogc using compare to sch . sch has poor ways for mp regen, aether flow every 60 seconds or luci? mean while 5 of sages heals is giving 700mp back, which makes me press lucid dreaming very very less compared to the whm /sch(ast already is busted for always having near infinite mp so I cant count them in) and kerachole makes sacred soil a JOKE , kera itself is so busted that it with taro/druo is all or ixo is all it needs to handle any needing heals. meaning while too lastly sch with their joke pixie pets that locks sch out of their kit? who finds a job entertaining when your punished for using your pet and get lock out of most of your skills.

[Supersnow845]

we have phelgma and toxicon..so that does give something for sages to play around with lol. Sch is the most boring healer and is the only healer that is trash at big pulls. I can handle big pulls no problem with ast/whm or even sage , anytime i try big pull with sch its just a stress wipe mess , pre casting is boring and unfun i love instant things. least even spamming E diag can work better to keep tank up (well dark night) as really I dont need to press no heals on warrior and maybe only 1 to 2 heals on a pld/gnb. sage is actually awarded more for their ogc using compare to sch . sch has poor ways for mp regen, aether flow every 60 seconds or luci? mean while 5 of sages heals is giving 700mp back, which makes me press lucid dreaming very very less compared to the whm /sch(ast already is busted for always having near infinite mp so I cant count them in) and kerachole makes sacred soil a JOKE , kera itself is so busted that it with taro/druo is all or ixo is all it needs to handle any needing heals. meaning while too lastly sch with their joke pixie pets that locks sch out of their kit? who finds a job entertaining when your punished for using your pet and get lock out of most of your skills.

If you think SCH is trash at big pulls that may be more of a you issue than a SCH issue because SCH does not struggle at all with large pulls, and toxicon/phlegma barely count as optimisation tools, SGE’s skill ceiling basically amounts to “ABC”

[Rilifane]

we have phelgma and toxicon..so that does give something for sages to play around with lol. Sch is the most boring healer and is the only healer that is trash at big pulls. I can handle big pulls no problem with ast/whm or even sage , anytime i try big pull with sch its just a stress wipe mess , pre casting is boring and unfun i love instant things. least even spamming E diag can work better to keep tank up (well dark night) as really I dont need to press no heals on warrior and maybe only 1 to 2 heals on a pld/gnb. sage is actually awarded more for their ogc using compare to sch . sch has poor ways for mp regen, aether flow every 60 seconds or luci? mean while 5 of sages heals is giving 700mp back, which makes me press lucid dreaming very very less compared to the whm /sch(ast already is busted for always having near infinite mp so I cant count them in) and kerachole makes sacred soil a JOKE , kera itself is so busted that it with taro/druo is all or ixo is all it needs to handle any needing heals. meaning while too lastly sch with their joke pixie pets that locks sch out of their kit? who finds a job entertaining when your punished for using your pet and get lock out of most of your skills.

SCH is weaker in terms of dps than SGE in dungeons because Phlegma and Toxikon fishing prepull outclasses the 10 higher potency on Art of War even if the SCH also uses AF on ED.

And when it comes to healing/ mitigation they're very much on par.
Where SGE would use Kera, Physis, Tauro, Haima, Panhaima and Krasis a SCH uses Soil, Whispering Dawn, Excog, Aetherpact, Seraph and Protraction. Soil is even 100 potency stronger than Kera since ground targets get an instant tick upon placing them. All in all, SGE and SCH are very similar for healing dungeon pulls and if you can do it on one you should be able to do it on the other because many buttons should even be on the exact same keybind since they function exactly the same. Pneuma and Expedient are the only skills that are noticeably different.

Dissipation at the end of the pull for stronger precast Adlo + 3 free stacks isn't rocket science to use, you're not supposed to use it midpull. But even then, if you need to GCD heal spam then Dissipation heal buff alone easily offsets the lost Embrace casts in addition to giving you 3 stacks for healing.
AF restores 20% at once, SGE 7% every 20s. So SCH is only 1% behind SGE per minute which is nowhere near "poor ways for mp regen". This sounds more like you just lack practice and haven't thought about proper keybinds yet because the class isn't the problem here.

[Rilifane]

Energy drain on sch.

So tired of getting players that don't know how to use their other aetherflow abilities because of fflogs.
Sage actually does aetherflow correctly with no dps dump ability and sage players are more often better than sch players this tier.

A player being bad at their job shouldn't be an argument to remove something entirely for everyone, including those not bad at it.
If they can't handle ED, they have SGE.

[Zolvolt]

A player being bad at their job shouldn't be an argument to remove something entirely for everyone, including those not bad at it.
If they can't handle ED, they have SGE.

I disagree. Removing ED in shb was the best thing ever. THey just needed to reblance how aetherflow worked and it would've been great.

[Supersnow845]

I disagree. Removing ED in shb was the best thing ever. THey just needed to reblance how aetherflow worked and it would've been great.

They had to have a dump for aetherflow since it’s generated as a bulk rather than one at a time, if they made it one at a time you just have another lily/addersgall and without energy drain you have literally no incentive to spend it

The only way you can kinda force an aetherflow system to work is make it an exact copy of addersgall but even addersgall is highly flawed because of the druachole dump, plus you remove basically the entire skill floor and skill ceiling from the class in one shot

The healers already have too much bloat in terms of free oGCD’s, every healer should be like SCH rather than SCH be the bad one

[Archwizard]

They had to have a dump for aetherflow since it’s generated as a bulk rather than one at a time, if they made it one at a time you just have another lily/addersgall and without energy drain you have literally no incentive to spend it

On the other hand though, overcapping is still just as much of an issue for SCH as it is for SGE, since they both generate a stable rate of 3 Aetherflow/Addersgall per minute (before Rhizomata or Dissipation ofc).
Despite that, SGE doesn't have a dump for "oh my third Addersgall is about to come off cooldown and I need to keep them all cycling," nor does SCH have anything preventing them from using Aetherflow on cooldown regardless for the extra MP.

The main reason they don't do that is because Energy Drain makes it a damage gain to use all of them.

In theory though you could kill two birds with one stone, trim a slot and lose zero functionality by just combining Aetherflow and Energy Drain (a la SMN) with the caveat that it deals more damage (and grants some Faerie Gauge) for every Aetherflow you still had banked when you activated it, as if you had Energy Drained each of those slots before activation. You already can't Aetherflow out of combat anyway, and this would just make that slightly more convenient by allowing you to open with ED rather than having to wait a GCD into combat.

The healers already have too much bloat in terms of free oGCD’s, every healer should be like SCH rather than SCH be the bad one

Ehhh... as I said before, SCH fills 3 whole action bars on PC; if you're arguing about "too much bloat in terms of free oGCDs" then SCH is still one of the worst cases, especially when it has redundancies like Fey Blessing vs Indomitability.

[Supersnow845]

On the other hand though, overcapping is still just as much of an issue for SCH as it is for SGE, since they both generate a stable rate of 3 Aetherflow/Addersgall per minute (before Rhizomata or Dissipation ofc).
Despite that, SGE doesn't have a dump for "oh my third Addersgall is about to come off cooldown and I need to keep them all cycling," nor does SCH have anything preventing them from using Aetherflow on cooldown regardless for the extra MP.

The main reason they don't do that is because Energy Drain makes it a damage gain to use all of them.

In theory though you could kill two birds with one stone and lose zero functionality by just combining Aetherflow and Energy Drain (a la SMN) with the caveat that it deals more damage (and grants some Faerie Gauge) for every Aetherflow you still had banked when you activated it, as if you had Energy Drained each of those slots before activation. You already can't Aetherflow out of combat anyway, so...



Ehhh... as I said before, SCH fills 3 whole action bars on PC; if you're arguing about "too much bloat in terms of free oGCDs" then SCH is still one of the worst cases, especially when it has redundancies like Fey Blessing vs Indomitability.

As to your first point that’s why energy drain works and needs to stay in its current form, if pressing aetherflow just spent the remainder of your energy drains it wouldn’t really change anything about the current system but it’s still better than addersgall

And as to your second yes all the healers are bloated with excessive oGCD’s but I will say fey blessing and indom have different uses, fey blessing is a totem heal and is totally free damage wise, indom can be forced to crit for a stronger heal but costs aetherflow so is used more as a reserve

Overall they are too similar and SCH doesn’t need this many heals (like all of them) but SCH at least has most of their heals have roughly different functions, I’d still prefer something like 3.0 or 4.0 though