3% HP nerf, what a giant slap in the dev's face

[FireMage]

Okay...

You said this affects a huge proportion of the playerbase. Issues such as balancing don't matter outside of the highest level of content. As long as you understand the basics of your job and can get some mechanics down, you're good to go with most high-end content. It certainly doesn't affect most casual players because the content they engage with is clearable with only a very basic understanding of your job, and you can easily be carried through most of the content.

In your link, he says that 50% of players have some kind of engagement with high-end content, but clarifies that a lot of this is casual engagement such as just giving it a go, being invited (probably referring to FC's asking if they want to run some duty or trial), or having their FC help them with a drop. He also clarifies that of this it's around 30% who are clearing high-end content, a number which gives you a better idea of broader participation. If only 30% of players are clearing high end content, then the number of players at the highest level, and who could argue are affected by minor balancing differences, isn't going to be that high.

Also, when you consider our FC and pretty much every FC in the game, routinely helps players clear a high end trials or dutys for a drop, and thats the only high end content they ever touch, even the the clear number is skewed somewhat (potentially by a heck of a lot of he is including the Primal Trials in that number).


TLDR; You cannot include casual or one time content engagement in your "2% balancing difference" affects a huge amount of the playerbase argument; and a 50% casual content participation doesn't make a majority of players hardcore raiders.

Go back and read my initial post. You're strawmanning. I only made a singular point, that Savage participation numbers were higher than what someone said. You wasted a lot of time typing all that

[MellowMink]

Who cares about job balance if you can clear with your feet.

I would be very impressed if this could actually be done for Savage content and not instead being commented as some inaccurate exaggeration for minor fixes.

[Housinginneed]

Not here to take sides but... are some people in this thread seriously suggesting 20-30% of the playerbase isn't a huge amount of number? proportionally yes, it's not the "majority" but 20% of a mmo population is a HUGE amount of players.

[SaberMaxwell]

I'll always take the better player no matter what job they pick.

That subpar Black Mage is going to cause me a lot more issues than the good red mage will.

In a perfect world where you can guarantee the skill of the player you get, sure. Their point was though, you're more likely to just flat out get a subpar player, and its a gacha player's luck whether you'll get the Red Mage that can even begin to compete with a gray Black Mage's damage.

[Ransu]

Okay...

You said this affects a huge proportion of the playerbase. Issues such as balancing don't matter outside of the highest level of content. As long as you understand the basics of your job and can get some mechanics down, you're good to go with most high-end content. It certainly doesn't affect most casual players because the content they engage with is clearable with only a very basic understanding of your job, and you can easily be carried through most of the content.

In your link, he says that 50% of players have some kind of engagement with high-end content, but clarifies that a lot of this is casual engagement such as just giving it a go, being invited (probably referring to FC's asking if they want to run some duty or trial), or having their FC help them with a drop. He also clarifies that of this it's around 30% who are clearing high-end content, a number which gives you a better idea of broader participation. If only 30% of players are clearing high end content, then the number of players at the highest level, and who could argue are affected by minor balancing differences, isn't going to be that high.

Also, when you consider our FC and pretty much every FC in the game, routinely helps players clear a high end trials or dutys for a drop, and thats the only high end content they ever touch, even the the clear number is skewed somewhat (potentially by a heck of a lot of he is including the Primal Trials in that number).


TLDR; You cannot include casual or one time content engagement in your "2% balancing difference" affects a huge amount of the playerbase argument; and a 50% casual content participation doesn't make a majority of players hardcore raiders.

And extremes are probably considered in that number....which imo extremes are very much the "casual" end of high end content. I doubt that number is that high going into savage.

For example, only .2% of the playerbase currently have cleared Abyssos, while clearing raids in general tends to cap out around 20-25%.

So basically I really wasn't that far off in my statement that clears within the first 2-3 weeks are not even 1% of the 30%.

[Kabooa]

In a perfect world where you can guarantee the skill of the player you get.

If you can't guarantee the player's skill then you have to go by the kit it brings.

I'll still take the red mage, given the choice.

To clarify, that's because we're assuming the only problem is going to be 'The Enrage'.

The fact of the matter is that there's a whole slew of other things that come before 'The Enrage', and the farther we move away from Week 1 (or "Neo Week 1" as this patch provides), the less the issue the Enrage becomes, and more the issue of simply getting to that point.

Black Mages do not help there, and their relevance to problem 1 will shrink with every passing week, the way it's been every tier.

[SaberMaxwell]

If you can't guarantee the player's skill then you have to go by the kit it brings.

I'll still take the red mage, given the choice.

And Black Mage's kit is so much more for the slot it fills than Red Mage's is. Raise's usefulness is more situational than the memes would have you believe, especially if we're talking about a fight like 8s (which this topic is about) pre-nerf where a raise in general put you in the running for enrage, let alone sandbagging the team by taking a Red Mage along to bring it.

To clarify, that's because we're assuming the only problem is going to be 'The Enrage'.

The fact of the matter is that there's a whole slew of other things that come before 'The Enrage', and the farther we move away from Week 1 (or "Neo Week 1" as this patch provides), the less the issue the Enrage becomes, and more the issue of simply getting to that point.

Black Mages do not help there, and their relevance to problem 1 will shrink with every passing week, the way it's been every tier.

But no matter how many other problems there are, that last problem of "The Enrage" will always be there at the end. If P8S never got nerfed, the problem of some jobs doing almost 1,000 less rDPS than others would still be there well into the tier, as even though the general player gets stronger, for many an enrage that tight can still be a problem. I've seen players struggling with P4S enrage as far as a few weeks before Abyssos came out, and they were BiS but for the obvious few pieces that come from the fight.

I would still prefer the Black Mage. In a static setting I'd prefer a player who is comfortable on and learns the fight on one job, rather than needing to have them play musical chairs with their job and re-learn the fight after we saw enrage. In a pug setting, I'd prefer the player whose damage even at worst is almost as good as if not better than the cream of the crop of either of Black Mage's peers.

[FireMage]

And extremes are probably considered in that number....which imo extremes are very much the "casual" end of high end content. I doubt that number is that high going into savage.

Literally is. For Zodiark's sake READ

[Ransu]

Literally is. For Zodiark's sake READ

I've read more than enough information disputing your claims. Raiding community isn't as large as you think it is, and the extreme end of it that clears stuff within the first few weeks is even significantly smaller.

[Flashy]

Literally is. For Zodiark's sake READ

You're dismissed