Fix PLD's Rotation

[Curisu]

No.
Don't you fucking dare.
You can pry Paladin from my cold, dead hands.

Agree.
PLD rotation is good as it is now.
They just have to tweak the numbers a bit and it will be fine.
Yea, he might be not as good as other tanks on certain burst heavy bosses but will on the other side be a bit better on a uninterrupted 100%-0% fight.

Do not take away one of the last different rotation.
I don't want another 10-20sec heavy burst into 100sec 123 tank.

[Undeadfire]

Agree.
PLD rotation is good as it is now.
They just have to tweak the numbers a bit and it will be fine.

Ah, yes, because FoF in optimal is burned 16s in before engaging a target somehow makes Paladin rotation good, this is a straight lie.

Yea, he might be not as good as other tanks on certain burst heavy bosses but will on the other side be a bit better on a uninterrupted 100%-0% fight.

It doesn't matter, 2 min bursting is the current meta and you can give DRK/GNB 2-6s downtimes, Paladin will lose hardcore against them, there's no other side, Paladin is a griefing tank. Magic range doesn't change anything than having a range advantage, but every high level of raid groups will adapt uptime strategies making this quote "irrelevant".

Do not take away one of the last different rotation.
I don't want another 10-20sec heavy burst into 100sec 123 tank.

Well sadly it has to be done unless the whole rotation system takes a overhaul. Paladins strongest bursts are far too late in raid buffs, and adding more potency buffs, more potency buffs, more potency buffs, isn't going to fix the job, it's fact. Paladins strongest attacks are in Holy Spirits/Blades, but you can't FoF after because it gets completely cucked trying to throw Goring back up under FoF. To counter this, pre-pop FoF during 16s of countdown and it will fall off on Goring and return after 3 atonements after Blades. Please tell me how this is a good rotation.

[Martynek]

Ah, yes, because FoF in optimal is burned 16s in before engaging a target somehow makes Paladin rotation good, this is a straight lie.

RDM prepulls acceleration. BLM prepulls sharpcast. RPR has Soulsow. AST has to prepull draw. NIN has to prepull Huton>Hide and get Suiton ready. DNC starts their dance prepull. I've seen discussion about <1s IR on WAR, but I'm not sure about it.

So disregarding WAR, that makes PLD one of 7 jobs that has to prepull an ability. It is not an outlier. So what makes it badly designed? Just because you do not personally like it is not indicative of anything objective.
If you do not like prepull prep, play a different job instead of trying to fuck up something that other people enjoy.

[RylaBee]

RDM prepulls acceleration.

No it doesn't.

Anyway, the issue about some PLD openers is about having dps boost ability(FoF) run empty out of combat, only using its tail in opener.
It feels realy stupid.

Perhaps the constant buffs to magic phase will push it out, we'll see.

[HyperiusUltima]

Anyway, the issue about some PLD openers is about having dps boost ability(FoF) run empty out of combat, only using its tail in opener.
It feels really stupid.

Perhaps the constant buffs to magic phase will push it out, we'll see.

I think the buffs to its Magic Phase are mostly to try and push its numbers up so it can compare to the other tanks in a raid setting - albeit they've made PLD more monstrous in a dungeon setting by giving Confiteor 1k potency on top of Expiacion being more powerful.

As for FoF, I think that pre-pull is mostly for fight timing - something that can be important to have in some fights like Barbie where you have multiple instances of interruption(Hair Tethers) or flat out downtime(first transition).

[Undeadfire]

As for FoF, I think that pre-pull is mostly for fight timing - something that can be important to have in some fights like Barbie where you have multiple instances of interruption(Hair Tethers) or flat out downtime(first transition).

Paladin has always operated on timings and optimal rotation throughout many fights, most in general are the optimal rotation, rare cases it's the alternative.

For Barba though, it's the 16-18s pre-pull FoF.

[Undeadfire]

RDM prepulls acceleration. BLM prepulls sharpcast. RPR has Soulsow. AST has to prepull draw. NIN has to prepull Huton>Hide and get Suiton ready. DNC starts their dance prepull. I've seen discussion about <1s IR on WAR, but I'm not sure about it.

So disregarding WAR, that makes PLD one of 7 jobs that has to prepull an ability. It is not an outlier. So what makes it badly designed? Just because you do not personally like it is not indicative of anything objective.
If you do not like prepull prep, play a different job instead of trying to fuck up something that other people enjoy.

Irrelevant.

A lot of these jobs can adapt an instant pull, it's not optimal but can adapt. Pld? It cannot. Goring/Intervene/Expiacion is severely weaker without FoF addition and one of it's main damage sources, and Fof must not be touched until 7 GCDs after Blades if it was not pre popped, that is garbage design. I don't need to keep explaining why SHBs Pld worked, it was pretty much on perfection except some abilities being a button bloat. 5.0 Pld was literally on GNB/DRK tier and could effectively beat them, or be on par.

Paladin got driven out of P8S week 1 clears, it's pick rate is 2nd to Mch, it's rotation is an absolute mess since Holy Spirit became the dominant force. The original rotation of Paladin cannot be used either.

I want to Paladin to be good, not a griefing tank.

[Martynek]

Paladin got driven out of P8S week 1 clears, it's pick rate is 2nd to Mch

I want to Paladin to be good, not a griefing tank.

Irrelevant, all this information is based on bottom-rung players that want to push around other players to make up for their own shortcomings. "Oh, sorry I'm not pulling my weight, you're gonna have to switch job to make up for it!" There were plenty of PLDs and WARs in week 1 clears of this tier and that should be evidence enough that there is not a significant issue.
The only reason any job is getting "bullied out of comps" is because of WoWbrained troglodytes that would commit murder for a 2% damage increase.

Compromising the design of one of the most interesting and thoughtfully designed jobs in the game to cater to these "people" is an absolutely laughable idea and I'm disgusted that SE is even considering it. But then again, I suppose it's okay for this to happen as long as it's not BLM on the chopping block, isn't it?

[george357]

well this dumpster fire of a topic is going nowhere time to leave and hope they fix war and pld.

[Undeadfire]

Irrelevant, all this information is based on bottom-rung players that want to push around other players to make up for their own shortcomings. "Oh, sorry I'm not pulling my weight, you're gonna have to switch job to make up for it!" There were plenty of PLDs and WARs in week 1 clears of this tier and that should be evidence enough that there is not a significant issue.

Really? Plenty of Plds? Only 3 Plds managed to on week 1. The rest received a Disband, or could not week 1, or switch to GNB/DRK. Warrior? 6 managed to, same treatment.

The only reason any job is getting "bullied out of comps" is because of WoWbrained troglodytes that would commit murder for a 2% damage increase.

Huh? What are you even on about... Fflogs states how pitifully low PLD has been vs GNB/DRK, it's griefing to one trick it. Or better yet, it was near 1k behind GNB/DRK in Aphodelos.

Compromising the design of one of the most interesting and thoughtfully designed jobs in the game to cater to these "people" is an absolutely laughable idea and I'm disgusted that SE is even considering it. But then again, I suppose it's okay for this to happen as long as it's not BLM on the chopping block, isn't it?

It's being considered because Pld is hardly getting picked, dumped or JP saying it simply sucks.