Reaper needs additional buffs.

[remiff]

The ninja has a 20% hp shield, shade shift. The monk has THREE CHARGES of 20% dmg reduction.

Monk has no cast nor does ninja or dragoon all are instant.

Reaper has cast on harpe if you do not warp. You seriously want to say the mobility of the job is reason for it to be low?? I can shukuchi my ass to adjust with speed and accuracy, no worries about warping into a wall due to a mandatory set jump distance like the reaper has.

The people who speak when they don't know what they talk about .-.

Mobility is factored into rdps values, simply because if one job has a super secret trick that lets them squeeze out more uptime, then they're going to do more dps. Again, people retrospectively come up with rubbish excuses to defend the status quo, but that doesn't mean that it can't and won't change. We'll continue to speak out, and more players will join us.

the ninja has a 20% shield but has a 120s cooldown, I don't compare it because the reaper has 10% every 15s, like the samurai, so it's not really similar to the others melee.
and the monk is just broken actually he has all possible tools and an abused HIGH DPS, especially since he had take a ' buff'' with the autcritc last adjustement on ''Bootshine''

and yes the mobility tools/mobility are a reasons for the devs to reduce the dps, look at the DPS difference between the ranged/caster DPS with the Melee DPS, why do you think the difference is so important, because the developers tax every mobility tools and general mobility,
Personally I do not understand why this tax is so major, but it is a fact it exists.

I'm not saying that the reaper doesn't need adjustment, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't necessarily have to be in the first DPS, and that the devs have adjust it so I'd be surprised if they adjust it soon, so they will definitely waiting for more stats, but I've said before on this thread that I just thought the other melee were just too strong.

basically if they adjust it to a minor patch, expect nothing better than 10 potency on the base combo, as they can totally ignore the reaper and carry over changes to 6.2 they did it before with others jobs, I never said that the reaper should be bad and I said that in my opinion it should be more or less at the same RDPS as the DRG, and it's not that far off in some situations, although the reaper is currently at a disadvantage.

I've already said it, and I'll say it again Square Enix should redo all the melee DPS balancing by nerfing the jobs that are too strong,
instead of buffing all the other roles, and the machinist mainly, I think it would be better if they nerf 'monk, ninja and drg slightly,
only the machinist is actually at a scary place in the game balance.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

the ninja has a 20% shield but has a 120s cooldown, I don't compare it because the reaper has 10% every 15s, like the samurai, so it's not really similar to the others melee.

and yes the mobility tools/mobility are a reasons for the devs to reduce the dps, look at the DPS differencebetween the ranged/caster DPS with the Melee DPS, why do you think the difference is so important, because the developers tax every mobility tools and general mobility,
Personally I do not understand why this tax is so major, but it is a fact it exists.

I'm not saying that the reaper doesn't need adjustment, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't necessarily have to be in the first DPS, and that the devs have just adjusted it so I'd be surprised if they adjust it soon as they will definitely be waiting for more stats, but I've said before on this thread that I just thought the other melee were just too strong.

basically if they adjust it to a minor patch, expect nothing better than 10 potency on the base combo, as they can totally ignore the reaper and carry over changes to 6.2 they did it before with others jobs, I never said that the reaper should be bad and I said that in my opinion it should be more or less at the same RPDS as the DRG, and it's not that far off in some situations.

Reaper shield is every 30 seconde. Please verify what you come up with.

Reaper is the worst Melee at the moment, behind the Samourai who is at the 4th place... by a little margin but still. IF reaper want to be an equal of the SAM, it would require him to get a buff allowing to output 470 Potency per minute more than what he actually do. This number get even more ridiculous if I compare it with a monk, it goes up to 1500 Potency EVERY MINUTE (Basically 1 more communio very minute AND it has to be CRIT/DH at the same time.)

But don't make mistake on my word, I don't say that reaper HAS to get this buff, that's not what I'm saying. Reaper need "the" buff that will make him into the right place, and that goes for every classes.

(By the way, MCH is behind the Bard by 1320 Potency per minute... And all the math i've done, even for the RPR just before, is done on rDPS. So MCH really need a MASSIVE buff to overcome this)

Now, you say every classes need tax. Ok, that's a fact. Then explain to me...

Ninja :

Dash where ever he wants !
20% Shield
DMG Upgrade for the whole team by 5%
Self damage Up 10%
Run faster (Passive lvl20)


Dragoon :

Back dash and can be used to gap close too if you are skilled enough with your camera.
Multiple Dash forward using Jumps (Not used for this, but it does it)
Crit Buff for everyone 10%
DMG up for self and one ally : 10% self and 5% ally

Monk :

Heal up for everyone 10%
DMG up for everyone 5%
DMG Reduction for self 20% 3 time !
DMG up for self 15%
Natural Skill Speed of 20% (0.5 sec of gcd basically, monk cannot go over 2 sec)
3 Gap closer on enemy AND ALLY

Reaper :

Shield that can break into a really light heal
Buff everyone 3%
Dash in and out every 20 sec, reuse possible to go to the dash start in 10 sec

SAM :

Dash in and out...
Mitigation tool used for his DPS.

So according to your logic, Mobility is a huge tax.

Now, explain to me, how MCH should be LAST in DPS against Bard and Dancer, when he doesn't have any gap close or back dash, or no buff at all ? How does that make any sense. MCH is literraly the slowest Ranged, in addition of being Selfish. How can he be 1320 Potency per minute BEHIND a Bard ?

DPS order should be : MCH>BRD>DNC... But today it's the exact opposite, Dancer is even superior as a BRD !

Back to the melee :

Today : MNK > DRG > NIN > SAM > RPR (rDPS wise)
SHOULD BE : SAM > RPR > MNK = NIN > DRG

[remiff]

Reaper shield is every 30 seconde. Please verify what you come up with.

Reaper is the worst Melee at the moment, behind the Samourai who is at the 4th place... by a little margin but still. IF reaper want to be an equal of the SAM, it would require him to get a buff allowing to output 470 Potency per minute more than what he actually do. This number get even more ridiculous if I compare it with a monk, it goes up to 1500 Potency EVERY MINUTE (Basically 1 more communio very minute AND it has to be CRIT/DH at the same time.)

But don't make mistake on my word, I don't say that reaper HAS to get this buff, that's not what I'm saying. Reaper need "the" buff that will make him into the right place, and that goes for every classes.

(By the way, MCH is behind the Bard by 1320 Potency per minute... And all the math i've done, even for the RPR just before, is done on rDPS. So MCH really need a MASSIVE buff to overcome this)

Now, you say every classes need tax. Ok, that's a fact. Then explain to me...

Ninja :

Dash where ever he wants !
20% Shield
DMG Upgrade for the whole team by 5%
Self damage Up 10%
Run faster (Passive lvl20)


Dragoon :

Back dash and can be used to gap close too if you are skilled enough with your camera.
Multiple Dash forward using Jumps (Not used for this, but it does it)
Crit Buff for everyone 10%
DMG up for self and one ally : 10% self and 5% ally

Monk :

Heal up for everyone 10%
DMG up for everyone 5%
DMG Reduction for self 20% 3 time !
DMG up for self 15%
Natural Skill Speed of 20% (0.5 sec of gcd basically, monk cannot go over 2 sec)
3 Gap closer on enemy AND ALLY

Reaper :

Shield that can break into a really light heal
Buff everyone 3%
Dash in and out every 20 sec, reuse possible to go to the dash start in 10 sec

SAM :

Dash in and out...
Mitigation tool used for his DPS.

So according to your logic, Mobility is a huge tax.

Now, explain to me, how MCH should be LAST in DPS against Bard and Dancer, when he doesn't have any gap close or back dash, or no buff at all ? How does that make any sense. MCH is literraly the slowest Ranged, in addition of being Selfish. How can he be 1320 Potency per minute BEHIND a Bard ?

DPS order should be : MCH>BRD>DNC... But today it's the exact opposite, Dancer is even superior as a BRD !

Back to the melee :

Today : MNK > DRG > NIN > SAM > RPR (rDPS wise)
SHOULD BE : SAM > RPR > MNK = NIN > DRG

I did not say that the current balance was good, or that I adhere to this mobility tax which is so important, and that the machinist deserves to be almost useless.

But you can see that the developers believe this is the case for some reason,
How many months has he been ignoring the MCH statement?.

Why is there such a difference between the melee DPS and the casters, why is the reaper there, nothing is necessarily justifiable for the majority of players, but you can see that the devs really don't care,
they did it with the bard on shadowbringer, and they do it again every time.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

I did not say that the current balance was good, or that I adhere to this mobility tax which is so important, and that the machinist deserves to be almost useless.

But you can see that the developers believe this is the case for some reason,
How many months has he been ignoring the MCH statement?.

I can't answer this question. Some people will say month, other years ? Who knows ?

The only thing I know is the disparity some classes have. The "Tax", if we can call it that, is too hard or unbalanced between class.

Every "Potency per minute" calculation I did was based on the maximum average DPS for the current raid tier.

Considering that 1 pts of potency is between 22-24 pts, depending on gear. For my calculation I used 23 as a reference. So value may be severly biased with people being full 630 already, but the final result will stay in the same way, if not worse.

Everyone know today that P8S P1 can't be killed with certain composition, and on NA server, is common to see that Tank spot is locked for PLD and WAR because of their damage output, as well for the MCH who is banned for the same reason. This may change in the futur when people start to be more geared up. But even then, that is not a normal situation.

PLD and WAR are behind GNB by 650 Potency per minute, and that's for the two of them. Leading to loss of 1300 Potency if you have the two tanks, which is already absurd.

RPR is the worst Melee by 470 Potency per minute, behind the SAM. But this value can increase to 1500 if you replace it with a Monk. That's basically 55-60k Damage per minute...

For the ranged, MCH got a 1320 Potency per minute behind the BRD, and this value is even more ridiculous when it comes up against a DNC, which make even less sense. Imagine replacing your MCH and your RPR for a DNC+MNK ? that would be a 2820 Potency par minute gain, which is absolutely stupid and completely off the chart, allowing a group to make almost 100k damage per minute more than the previous composition. Just add 1300 Potency more if you DRK/GNB as tank... Yeah you can go up to 4000+ Potency just for having those 4 class in your team instead of RPR/MCH/PLD/WAR

I didn't calculate for Caster sadly, as I'm not really acustomed to them, therefore I don't want to say something completely off the charts.


So yeah, SE Really need to do something about balance, but not for MCH. For all jobs.

Don't get me wrong. Having different value because of different job is completely normal. But not if this locks PF, Ban classes, etc etc, or have such a significant Margin...

[remiff]

I can't answer this question. Some people will say month, other years ? Who knows ?

The only thing I know is the disparity some classes have. The "Tax", if we can call it that, is too hard or unbalanced between class.

Every "Potency per minute" calculation I did was based on the maximum average DPS for the current raid tier.

Considering that 1 pts of potency is between 22-24 pts, depending on gear. For my calculation I used 23 as a reference. So value may be severly biased with people being full 630 already, but the final result will stay in the same way, if not worse.

Everyone know today that P8S P1 can't be killed with certain composition, and on NA server, is common to see that Tank spot is locked for PLD and WAR because of their damage output, as well for the MCH who is banned for the same reason. This may change in the futur when people start to be more geared up. But even then, that is not a normal situation.

PLD and WAR are behind GNB by 650 Potency per minute, and that's for the two of them. Leading to loss of 1300 Potency if you have the two tanks, which is already absurd.

RPR is the worst Melee by 470 Potency per minute, behind the SAM. But this value can increase to 1500 if you replace it with a Monk. That's basically 55-60k Damage per minute...

For the ranged, MCH got a 1320 Potency per minute behind the BRD, and this value is even more ridiculous when it comes up against a DNC, which make even less sense. Imagine replacing your MCH and your RPR for a DNC+MNK ? that would be a 2820 Potency par minute gain, which is absolutely stupid and completely off the chart, allowing a group to make almost 100k damage per minute more than the previous composition. Just add 1300 Potency more if you DRK/GNB as tank... Yeah you can go up to 4000+ Potency just for having those 4 class in your instead of RPR/MCH/PLD/WAR

I didn't calculate for Caster sadly, as I'm not really acustomed to them, therefore I don't want to say something completely off the charts.


So yeah, SE Really need to do something about balance, but not for MCH. For all jobs.

What I don't understand since endwalker is why they prefer to buff rather than nerf, the balance at 6.0 was better than currently except that the reaper was a little bit too strong, buffing absolutely all the melee they have created a bigger gap with the other jobs which have not been adjusted accordingly,
whereas if they had just slightly nerfed what was too strong at the time and slightly reassembled what was bad, it wouldn't be there.

by massively buffing other melee it's equivalent to a reaper nerf, and destroys the balance of other roles that have not had adjustments,
it's the first extension where there did no nerfs on the potency of a job, I don't understand why they are so afraid of nerfs when they often did before.

and there, the monk got a buff again with the changes to the assured crit-dh spells,
and the damage increase on guaranteed crit-dh spells is pretty huge in some comps.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

What I don't understand since endwalker is why they prefer to buff rather than nerf, the balance at 6.0 was better than currently except that the reaper was a little bit too strong, buffing absolutely all the melee they have created a bigger gap with the other jobs which have not been adjusted accordingly,
whereas if they had just slightly nerfed what was too strong at the time and slightly reassembled what was bad, it wouldn't be there.

by massively buffing other melee it's equivalent to a reaper nerf, and destroys the balance of other roles that have not had adjustments,
it's the first extension where there are practically no nerfs, I don't understand why they are so afraid of nerfs when they often did before.

Simple : They don't like to nerf. I heard them say it in a liveletter, i'm pretty sure of that.

It's okay to buff classes, absolutely nothing wrong with that, but this must be done through careful calculation and serious test beforehand.

Nerfing a class may deserves it in a greater way than buffing others. If you nerf a class, but you do it too much, this class will not be able to clear savage anymore. It's just a exemple of course, but imagine that :

What if you nerf the monk, and you estimate that the nerf was 3% but it's 10% en reality ? Monk will then take the place that MCH has today and will not be able to clear the Week 1 Savage tier. (Again, that's just an exemple, no way this is going to happen)

In the opposite, if you tune up classes, but again fail on your calculation, you may overbuff them, like they did with the 4 melee, allowing every single one of them to go above the reaper.

What dev seems to overlook is this.

SAM, BLM and MCH share something in common : Selfishness.

What happen if you buff one of those three class ? They hit harder, of course, but the consequence behind that are much more impactful than what you think.

Now what if I say to you : The SAM is buffed by 10% and become first DPS.

I see two other classes already rubbing their hands : DNC and BRD.

Believe it or not, but if you buff a Selfish class, or any class, you automatically buff indirectly DNC and BRD (Or any other class that can buff). It's logical. The more you buff a class that DNC/BRD can count on, the more rDPS they will have. So buffing classes always benefit those two greatly and by a significant margin. DNC will always target the biggest DPS in the party, so if this class is buffed, is 100% beneficial for them.

That's why MCH need a massive boost, because he takes a spot used by BRD/DNC who have a Great offensive Utility

[remiff]

Simple : They don't like to nerf. I heard them say it in a liveletter, i'm pretty sure of that.

It's okay to buff classes, absolutely nothing wrong with that, but this must be done through careful calculation and serious test beforehand.

Nerfing a class may deserves it in a greater way than buffing others. If you nerf a class, but you do it too much, this class will not be able to clear savage anymore. It's just a exemple of course, but imagine that :

What if you nerf the monk, and you estimate that the nerf was 3% but it's 10% en reality ? Monk will then take the place that MCH has today and will not be able to clear the Week 1 Savage tier. (Again, that's just an exemple, no way this is going to happen)

In the opposite, if you tune up classes, but again fail on your calculation, you may overbuff them, like they did with the 4 melee, allowing every single one of them to go above the reaper.

What dev seems to overlook is this.

SAM, BLM and MCH share something in common : Selfishness.

What happen if you buff one of those three class ? They hit harder, of course, but the consequence behind that are much more impactful than what you think.

Now what if I say to you : The SAM is buffed by 10% and become first DPS.

I see two other classes already rubbing their hands : DNC and BRD.

Believe it or not, but if you buff a Selfishclass, or any class, you automatically buff DNC and BRD (Or any other class that can buff). It's logical. The more you buff a class that DNC/BRD can count on, the more rDPS they will have. So buffing classes always benefit those two greatly and by a significant margin. DNC will always target the biggest DPS in the party, so if this class is buffed, is 100% beneficial for them.

That's why MCH need a massive boost, because he takes a spot used by BRD/DNC who have a Great offensive Utility

Normally if they do tests they should be able to calculate the +- the % of a nerf even if it is not precise without players test, especially if they do it gradually by slices of 10 or 20 potency on combo spells.

they did it very well before and the nerfs are rarely more than 1-3%.

every time they messed up balances, it was because they adjusted an entire role too much,
they did it in 5.1 too after massive buffs on ranged/caster.

[MordecaiGalidonus]

Finally, another person that understands and points outs the inconsistent bs people keep spouting in here. Anyone denying what, You, Me, or any other person that can view barses "correctly" is showing, are people who don't even play the classes in question atm. Love how when "their" job is preforming in a state where its one of the most used classes, everything is fine and nothing needs changes. A few people point out how the balance is slightly fudged and everyone comes out the woodworks that main the top preforming jobs saying how its fine and nothing needs to be changed. Went from people not knowing the difference between "Raid" and "Defensive" utility, to "mobility tax", to freaking "Ease of play". cant wait to see the next straw pull people will use to justify why a melee with some of the least "Utilities" deserves to be last in each type of dmg.

[ChaozK]

Today : MNK > DRG > NIN > SAM > RPR (rDPS wise)
SHOULD BE : SAM > RPR > MNK = NIN > DRG

I dont know where you came up with that but this is what it actually looks like.

Raid dps:

Personal dps:


As you see SAM is absolutely ballin right now. Please dont spread misinformation.