Unpopular opinion on G'raha Tia (spoilers)

[Midareyukki]

There's a difference between "making her a magical girl" and showing her casting one spell magical-girl style, which is what we got.

For me, that is actually really relatable because it's her, as an adult, having to perform a chant she invented when she was seven years old. I can imagine the embarrassment if I had to do the same.

You are correct, of course. It was an one-off thing.

Yet it was unnecessary.

The point still stands: why are we portraying characters in different lights and showing off how over the top and expressive they can be when normally they're rather sober?

I understand it was just a singular note to display why Y'shtola was so uncomfortable, and how her younger self would act. Yet... it just doesn't fit the game? And now they're forcing these things into the game to make future additions fit. A sort of precedent case. But this caters to... who exactly? The game worked just fine without these things, I fail to see why Endwalker decided to double down on them.

Amusing, sure. But... If you fridge logic it, it's like... Why??

They could honestly use the resources they spend on these animations and effects for the characters and improve other things about the game, but that's a can of worms and a half, is it not?

[aveyond-dreams]

You are correct, of course. It was an one-off thing.

Yet it was unnecessary.

The point still stands: why are we portraying characters in different lights and showing off how over the top and expressive they can be when normally they're rather sober?

I understand it was just a singular note to display why Y'shtola was so uncomfortable, and how her younger self would act. Yet... it just doesn't fit the game? And now they're forcing these things into the game to make future additions fit. A sort of precedent case. But this caters to... who exactly? The game worked just fine without these things, I fail to see why Endwalker decided to double down on them.

Amusing, sure. But... If you fridge logic it, it's like... Why??

They could honestly use the resources they spend on these animations and effects for the characters and improve other things about the game, but that's a can of worms and a half, is it not?

I suspect this is supposed to cater to the Twitter fans who often portray their wols and Scions doing stuff like this. However, despite how loud they are I don't believe for a second that pandering to them is in the game's best interest, nor that they represent any sort of majority. FFXIV's core base is fantasy fans. That means give us a cast full of heroes we can get excited about that have unique characteristics to them - not the same character copypasted 7 times in different outfits. Adding jokes in poor taste and the other stuff we saw in Endwalker isn't conducive to that.

It's not an exaggeration when I say that the Scions are the worst Final Fantasy party in the entire franchise. I fully believe this. I would rather travel alone than be saddled with the likes of G'raha Tia and Y'shtola. Even Scions fans have reached the point where they realize that keeping characters around for longer than is reasonable doesn't represent anything good for the story. We need better and more unique characters. A brash, rough around the edges knight who likes drinking like Branden. A womanizing Bard or Rogue like Thancred in ARR, or magic users with tragic pasts and fates like Terra Brandford, Celes Chere, Yuna, and so on. Not more scholars from the same handful of races.

Side note, among further depictions of the Ancients and the events leading up to the Sundering, animation resources should probably be focused on female Hrothgar. Would love an Elezen animation rework at some point as well, practically no one is satisfied with the way they move and the person responsible for the state of them did not stay on the FFXIV team for long if what I heard is true.

[Iscah]

The point still stands: why are we portraying characters in different lights and showing off how over the top and expressive they can be when normally they're rather sober?

I understand it was just a singular note to display why Y'shtola was so uncomfortable, and how her younger self would act. Yet... it just doesn't fit the game?

Why doesn't it fit the game? Why shouldn't it?

Y'shtola can't be boring and stoic all the time. We spend a lot of time with these characters and I'm fine with seeing other aspects of them than serious all the time.

Edit to add: I feel like the difference may be that they're putting effort into properly cutscening some of the lighter bits of the script instead of burying them all in optional dialogue while saving the cutscenes purely for big serious stuff. One of my favourite, funniest bits of ARR's dialogue was trying to find the Scions in the Sylphlands with all the imposters about, but you'd miss most of that interaction if you just went through focused on following the MSQ marker, and now it's been swept away entirely in the editing process. A genuine loss to the story IMO.

[aveyond-dreams]

Why doesn't it fit the game? Why shouldn't it?

Y'shtola can't be boring and stoic all the time. We spend a lot of time with these characters and I'm fine with seeing other aspects of them than serious all the time.

You're right. Like more beloved heroines such as Yuna, Celes, and Garnet, she could have had a moment of emotional vulnerability that would have actually endeared us to her. Portraying her as mostly strong and a one-off quirky embarrassing moment isn't working. If I'm ever supposed to take this character seriously I want to see her cry, suffer, and potentially even die.

I want her to actually grow instead of being the same thing each expansion, defined more by fakeouts than any other of her personality traits that she shares with way too many other cast members. If this cannot be achieved, let her bow out of the story with grace. She is the only female character in this game that I despise more than Lyse. Not even Venat, as Mary Sue as she was, is anywhere close to being as detrimental to the story as Y'shtola's presence is.

[VelKallor]

so I can assume that, since you're so accurate in your answer, you've already done this research, and you can show us the result.

So I would like to understand on the basis of what he claims or not that: the group that likes the way that Graha is being used is significantly larger than the group that doesn't think the character is being used well.

Simple.

My answer boils down to three words, a phrase that it seems a lot of people are either unable, or unwilling to use in this day and age.

We dont know.

See how easy that is?

This forum consists of maybe 200-300 people..as opposed to a playerbase of millions, so no, we dont know what a "significant number think about this". No one does.

i cant see as how thats a difficult fact to accept.

[Adamantini]

(...)

so this rule only applies to others? For you said yourself that 5-6 people are insignificant. How do you, who haven't done any research, know this value? Or is the subject touched so sensitive to you, that it made you get angry and come here to despise those who thought your best friend made of pixels was misused within the virtual game?

do you know how to make a sample of people? Did you calculate the sample value of FFXIV players to know if 200-300 people don't match the population?

You are trying to belittle what they are saying with arguments that are invalid even for you. If you've never heard about the topic, I can also say that 5-6 people you know are an insignificant portion and don't correspond to the total number of players. Do you understand what I mean?

EDIT: I've been waiting a long time for an interesting counter-argument, but apparently it won't come anytime soon. I'm going to sleep, and wait for an interesting counterargument in the morning

[PaulH]

I love G'raha personally and the voice actor more so as I am a Jonathan Bailey fan - he was amazing in cocktheplay in London , this catboy can follow me around all day long . I totally get he is marmite and everyone has their own opinion. Mine is valid just for me, i always smile when I get some story with him and others it creeps them out or is plain annoying. Some love the scions, some not so much and others want a purge.

I love Theoderic and Aveyond's insights to story, opinion on characters and thoughts which question my own interpretation and are thought provoking they I personally enjoy it. I can see we would disagree in alot and agree on other things and have a good bit of banter about it if we ever got into a real life conversation. There is so much polarisation and fighting when it comes to forums, reddit and twitter etc. I do wonder when worth and value of the game gets so negative the joy is simply sucked out but then I suppose i know that for me personally it is a barometer to step away and seek something else to chillout with as this is just a game to me.

[VelKallor]

For you said yourself that 5-6 people are insignificant. How do you, who haven't done any research, know this value?

Simple. 5-6 people vs close to a million or more. But you know that.

Done here.

As for myself, i already made my stance clear. I dont know. Neither does anyone else.

[MagicPeanut]

I like G’raha.

People like lyse and she was awful. She still gets parts in the story. People like moenbryda who was pointless and got wasted scenes about her in EW because players cried about it being unfair she died. She contributed nothing at all.

Everyone can like or dislike him if they want. I’ll always want more story with him.

That's not really fair to Moenbryda as a whole though. I always looked at her and her death from the perspective of the impact she left on the other characters. We barely got to have her in the group before she was gone, and as a result, we personally didn't get to know her that well. But she was clearly someone the others' deeply cared for and looked up to. (It's even brought up how she impacted other characters outside the MSQ, like Mikoto or the little girl in the Old Sharlayan side quest)

To me, her character is best seen from her impact on the others, rather than for us as the main character. Seeing how others were affected by her death helped to define and flesh them out even more, and really got me crying like crazy with the conclusion in EW. Just something to keep in mind! (I fully agree with you on G'raha tho. ) Also, rip to her old Minion description lmao.

[MagicPeanut]

Fan service to the degree we saw in Endwalker does not belong in the MSQ. Leave it in side quests if it must be in the game at all, because appeasing character fan clubs shouldn’t come at the cost of a well-developed story with compelling stakes and consequences.

Their fans would love them regardless whether they live or die and, as they tend to do, would move on the minute a new character that suits their whims is released.

I must respectfully disagree. There can be a place for both serious/heavy moments in the story while also allowing for lighthearted or even fanservice-y scenes to break them up and give the player some relief. A story can't be enjoyable if there's just one singular tone throughout the whole way through. That's something I've always loved about the FF series in general, in that they incorporate negative and positive tonal shifts very well.

There also wasn't all that much fanservice for EW at all, imo. Or rather, it was balanced? Either way, you're kind of exaggerating. You make it seem like it was in our face in every cutscene when that isn't the case at all. They can't just make the story for one specific type of player. We all have varying interests when it comes to the MSQ and it's, quite frankly, selfish to say it should basically be cutout and stuck elsewhere. There are things I didn't particularly enjoy the whole MSQ through, but I wouldn't suggest removing them out because I'm aware that others actually like it. (I'm not that crazy about Y'shtola for one, but I know others really like her. Plus, she can be interesting and funny at times, so I let it slide.)

Also, you're very presumptuous that all fans of a single character would all act the way you say. I enjoy characters with similar personalities to G'raha in other games or even anime, however to me he is very unique on his own and I don't see him as a pure list of tropes to latch on to. This goes for other characters that may be similar to him. I can acknowledge they're similar but I can still enjoy them to different extents based on the series they came from, quality of writing, style, character arc, etc. It's not all about just getting hot and bothered, lmao.