desperate times calls for desperate measures ( classes balance )

[Hussain]

I think this needs no introduction
for those who are raiding week 1 and now in either party finder or in their statics , it's probably one of the worst times ever in terms of having to change classes to defeat the final floor. yes the door boss
having pld + mch specifically in your group will just cripple you
party finder are already blocking pld + mch + war in all data centers
we cannot wait until 6.25 for another 10 potency buffs!
a hotfix to buff some classes must happen ASAP before 6.25 ( ~2 months away )

[Malpercios]

MCH just flat out needs more buffs. A upgraded tome weapon MCH will still do less raid damage than a DNC with a extreme weapon with a Samurai or Ninja partner. Wildfire's dmg still only scales with determination and skill speed (a stat MCH doesn't really care for). It still ignores critical hit and direct hit attributes and raid buffs. It is the last job that has that kind of limitation in place. Heat blast needs to be higher potency overall, probably a 20-30 potency increase. It's burst windows should do more damage overall so it can play better inside other's raid buffs. It brings less than dancer in terms of support and to some extent bard (though they could use better support abilities too). The FF14 job guide physical range page describes the role as being able to "provide support to their companions". An easy fix would be to bring back dismantle (5-10% damage mitigation debuff on the target) or possibly an AoE shield like in PvP.

The job has had a bad stigma around it for a while now. I'm not sure why the job's issues are being ignored for so long and the job balance so stingy.

[CKNovel]

In theory it's possible to clear with MCH + WAR + PLD, but you would need jobs and players able to compensate for what those jobs lack.
But in practice, only the doorboss has been passed with this composition during Week 1, by a single group with excellent healers.
This group will surely clear within Week 2.

300 Dancer cleared P8S while 10 MCH struggled to pass P8S. World first MCH happening during Friday evening. (RPR world first happened on Saturday but more RPR managed to clear, I believe the job was underestimated)

It's a bit late to buff MCH, you'll see weeks before a buff patch and the gear will compensate what MCH initially lacked.

Thought I will reiterate my MCH buffs request before Criterion Dungeon:
-Reduce Chain saw fall off damage, 65% is way too much compared to BRD&DNC who have access to many AoE tools.
-Increase Drill, Air Anchor, Chain Saw, Bio Blaster damage. Bio Blaster is so weak on 2 targets Drill can be better depending on RNG.
-Shift potency from the Automaton Queen to the MCH. AQ remains uncontrolled potency. More control = good. If possible shift the potency towards weaponskill/abilities that are within the 120s window.
-Wildfire buff, with the crit/dh change Wildfire can now be a garanteed crit/dh and scale off both those stats. Fall off damage as AoE would be welcome but since it's on target it will be worthless in many cases. A possible solution to this problem would be to give a massive range to Wildfire explosion.

Possible extended changes for 6.X series:
-Rework Barrel stabilizer, make it give a free Hypercharge rather than 50 heat. The heat gauge is too rigid right now. Flexibility is a strength, not job dumbing.
-Hypercharge on charges. Possibly 3 charges instead of 5. Flexibility is good, it did wonders on tanks and will free space for MCH future expansions.
-Never forget that MCH is competing with BRD&DNC for a single spot, never forget DNC brings wonderful mitigations.

[Hussain]

what are you even talking about? is this your first time around bad job balance?
overgearing current savage WILL not solve the problem , because those classes will most likely be locked out ( we have seen this happened in the past so many times ) gear did not change much
you do realize that there's an ultimate coming right? how do you overgear it?
you do realize there's a third tier of savage coming right? and people want to play their classes in a future week 1 right?
you do realize that most statics only recruit dnc\brd right? and if mch provides decent dps like some selfish classes ( blm\sam ) they'd also recruit mch despite the lack of utility
It's not late to buff mch\war\pld , those classes will be locked from pf for a long time just like the whm+mch lock in alphascape that also happened after bis!! and a buff came late in 4.5 to save them from not playing in pf

also this thread is about potency buffs for the weak classes , it is not a specific mch rework thread. there is one for mch rework you can post your ideas there my friend

[Kalaam]

I think you completely missed CK's point.

[Hussain]

I think you completely missed CK's point.

No not really
the whole point of this thread is to highlights the struggle that pld\mch\war players are having in both pf and in their groups ( being forced to switch to drk\gnb\dnc or brd ) to meet the dps check. And those players will still be bullied even when they get more gear just like in old tiers until they switch their classes
what CK is presenting are possible solutions for MCH in 7.0 because they will not do a mch rework of any kind right now as yoshi specifically said they're happy with where mch is in terms of design , so the only possible outcome is to just buff potencies now

We just need buffs for those classes , it is definitely not late to buff them as we are still mid expansion!! how is it late to buff classes mid expansion?? I don't understand lol

[ZiraZ]

I'm still surprised they didn't take the opportunity to make Wildfire an always crit DH ability on 6.2, and also why does Drill still do nothing? seems kind of odd it's the only 580 pot ability with no additional effects at max level?

[CKNovel]

While my point aimed for MCH in particular (because we are in DPS roles afterall), I believe you missed it:
You call for a hotfix as soon as possible. It's too late for a balance hotfix.

I'm not saying jobs shouldn't be buffed in 6.21, 6.25, 6.3 or any other patches.
Overgearing will solve 6.2 problems since DPS is mainly for week 1.

[Janyd]

What needs to happen is the job balance team needs to quit looking just in the JP forums, and look to the West for more feedback.

They can always look to interpreters to eliminate the language barriers, of course. That's what's awesome about modern conveniences.

I'm not sure if they do that often enough, but they need to quit being so ignorant to our pleas, and get to reading here, and in the EU forums too.

It's egregious, and frankly disheartening, to put it nicely. I've got choice words for the dev teams' complete lack of job balance that are not fit for the forums, but that's neither here nor there.



As for the Jobs themselves, I think the points have been made which Jobs are clearly underperforming and untenable right now.

So, I propose a challenge to any group willing to do this (especially with groups that are not anywhere close to a datacenter):

Take a PLD, WAR, MCH, RPR, RDM, SGE, your choice of pure healer and wild-card DPS (such as BRD, BLM, or SAM) into P8S Phase 1, but don't rely on tomestone gear or P5S-P7S gear too much outside of the first two weeks' worth of it.

Record the fight, and see if it's mathematically possible/impossible to clear the door boss under those conditions. Then repeat this with a couple of changes to Jobs that have known clears (DRK, GNB, SMN, DNC are obvious), and put it to the proof.

Post comparisons of how close the door boss is beaten in failed attempts, as well as successful attempts via composition changes (maybe use in-game instance timers too as a point of reference).

Let the results speak for themselves.

[Hussain]

While my point aimed for MCH in particular (because we are in DPS roles afterall), I believe you missed it:
You call for a hotfix as soon as possible. It's too late for a balance hotfix.

I'm not saying jobs shouldn't be buffed in 6.21, 6.25, 6.3 or any other patches.
Overgearing will solve 6.2 problems since DPS is mainly for week 1.

Again this is not true , while you're correct when you said "Overgearing will solve 6.2 problems since DPS is mainly for week 1." but it's not the case with this community
we've had a LOT of tiers when everyone is bis and jobs are literally locked out from both pf and static recruitment
Yes you're right dps won't be an issue in a couple of weeks but you know what? mch\pld\war will be locked regardless in most pfs