It is not possible to play without doing dps as healer? every day i find someone...

[FakeCirka]

If you do little or no DPSing as a healer, and your party dies to enrage, then you didn't exactly keep the party alive, did you.

Every job, regardless of your role, is responsible for doing as much damage as it can to the boss. Every job, regardless of role, is responsible for doing everything possible for keeping the party alive. These are not mutually exclusive aspects to the DPS and healers. Healers need to DPS just as much as DPS need to use mitigation and do mechanics correctly as to not kill their allies, which is to say, they need to do as much damage as they can squeeze out of their GCD. That is how the game is fundamentally designed. SE may not like that, but that's how they designed FFXIV. Choosing not to DPS as a healer or intentionally using your shitty GCD heals when you know you would be better off using your OGCD heals instead is called griefing, because you are intentionally underplaying for selfish gain which is rude and disrespectful to other players. That is universal online gaming etiquette.

Let me know when you get a savage group that takes a no DPS healer. Im just saying technically you can clear without a healer doing dps if all the dps are doing their rotations properly. Do you REALLY think someone like OP will be doing Savage content? I highly doubt it, they will prob do the required stuff for MSQ and maybe some normal raids/trials. Point is that people over react to healers doing no dmg in normal content, and its stupid when they themselves usually are having issues with their own rotation. As someone whos typically top DPS in parties, I would never complain a healer wasnt doing damage in my lvl 73 dungeon lol. I also disagree that its griefing to not DPS as a healer. Some people are just old, or have physical conditions or what ever that hinders their game play. Maybe its their first MMO. Who knows, who cares, but shouldn't be bashing them for "being bad" in normal content lol.

[Supersnow845]

Never once said people who do damage on healers are also freestyle dps players.



Even though the wording is pretty all over the place, I understand what you are trying to say, but again, you are not actually understanding what I wrote. I'm assuming English is perhaps your second language, which is fine and I am not trying to bash you for that, but my comment was more directed towards the healers who keep players extremely low and then let them die.



I think we can both agree that a zero DPS healer really shouldn't be doing things such as savage content, but I hard disagree that DPS cannot hit enrage if the healer is not DPSing when played perfectly.

No English is my first language your comments premise just doesn’t make any reasonable sense

Your comment says that somehow letting people die on a healer while doing damage is a reason that people should be fine with others not doing damage and that the push for DPS on healers is causing more deaths than heal botting or even just the “only do damage when the tank is about x percentage” philosophy which both completely ignores the idea that cure mages are often the absolute worst healers in the game and even then a healer doing DPS with one wipe is still faster than a zero DPS healer. On top of this it completely ignores the role the tank plays in this, if I left you drop extremely low and you have your invuln up and don’t use it that wipe is your fault not the healers fault, encouraging tanks to actually use their invuln is 100% something I do as a healer. On the subject of “only do damage above x percentage” that still ignores your wealth of oGCD’s and the oGCD’s I mentioned, healers are designed to do damage, not do damage when it’s convenient

And no you will not clear without healer DPS unless the DPS are close to BIS, P8 has an evil DPS check it can barely be cleared by world first teams with one damage down let alone zero healer DPS

[FakeCirka]

No English is my first language your comments premise just doesn’t make any reasonable sense

Your comment says that somehow letting people die on a healer while doing damage is a reason that people should be fine with others not doing damage and that the push for DPS o

Read up to here before I stopped. Again, didn't say that, you just can't read properly. I won't bother replying to someone who just wants to argue lol. Have a nice weekend though.

[Supersnow845]

Let me know when you get a savage group that takes a no DPS healer. Im just saying technically you can clear without a healer doing dps if all the dps are doing their rotations properly. Do you REALLY think someone like OP will be doing Savage content? I highly doubt it, they will prob do the required stuff for MSQ and maybe some normal raids/trials. Point is that people over react to healers doing no dmg in normal content, and its stupid when they themselves usually are having issues with their own rotation. As someone whos typically top DPS in parties, I would never complain a healer wasnt doing damage in my lvl 73 dungeon lol. I also disagree that its griefing to not DPS as a healer. Some people are just old, or have physical conditions or what ever that hinders their game play. Maybe its their first MMO. Who knows, who cares, but shouldn't be bashing them for "being bad" in normal content lol.

No don’t invoke the “they may be disabled” that is just ablest believing that crap play can be excused by a problem outside the persons control, ask any zero DPS healer you get in normal content why they won’t do damage, 10/10 of times you’ll either get “you don’t pay my sub” or “I’m watching Netflix”, healer APM is low enough on WHM and SGE for anyone that can pass the MSQ to do damage as a healer. It 100% is griefing

[Supersnow845]

Read up to here before I stopped. Again, didn't say that, you just can't read properly. I won't bother replying to someone who just wants to argue lol. Have a nice weekend though.

Okay sure if you want to make unsubstantiated points then tell other people “you just don’t get my point” then go ahead

[ty_taurus]

Let me know when you get a savage group that takes a no DPS healer. Im just saying technically you can clear without a healer doing dps if all the dps are doing their rotations properly. Do you REALLY think someone like OP will be doing Savage content? I highly doubt it, they will prob do the required stuff for MSQ and maybe some normal raids/trials. Point is that people over react to healers doing no dmg in normal content, and its stupid when they themselves usually are having issues with their own rotation. As someone whos typically top DPS in parties, I would never complain a healer wasnt doing damage in my lvl 73 dungeon lol. I also disagree that its griefing to not DPS as a healer. Some people are just old, or have physical conditions or what ever that hinders their game play. Maybe its their first MMO. Who knows, who cares, but shouldn't be bashing them for "being bad" in normal content lol.

It shouldn't matter whether or not we're talking about savage content. Your dungeon may not have an enrage, but your healer DPS may end the fight before someone makes a major mistake. The logic applies throughout FFXIV. And so what if a party can clear without healer DPS? A party can clear without the DPS doing anything but auto attacking. Just because you can do the barest of minimums and still clear content does not mean it's in good online etiquette to do so. I would be very upset with anyone in my party who's too lazy to play the game. Note that I'm also referring to intentionally bad play and not lack of skill or ability. Those of us who fight lazy healers on the forums have spoken till we're blue in the face about how what matters is genuine effort and not optimal skill, but it tends to fall on deaf ears. In fact I covered this earlier in this thread:

Choosing to only heal as a healer and ignore your DPS kit is exactly the same as a BLM choosing only to use blizzard spells and ignore their fire spells. Both are examples of trying to roleplay as a playstyle that does not exist in FFXIV. It is incredibly rude and disrespectful to waste other players' time because you want to pretend you're playing a different game. That is not how FFXIV works. If you do not like that, either find an RP party or play a different game.

That said, there's nothing wrong with not performing optimally as long as you are genuinely trying your best. No one begins as a savage tier player and it's okay to not be perfect. Additionally, if you have certain physical or mental limitations that make it harder to play the game, it's important to find a group of players who are willing to help you get through different aspects of content. Unfortunately, an MMO just isn't the prime example of a game genre known for accessibility, but as long as you communicate with people and create a network of friends who will help you, you can still enjoy a lot of what FFXIV can offer you.

[Supersnow845]

It shouldn't matter whether or not we're talking about savage content. Your dungeon may not have an enrage, but your healer DPS may end the fight before someone makes a major mistake. The logic applies throughout FFXIV. And so what if a party can clear without healer DPS? A party can clear without the DPS doing anything but auto attacking. Just because you can do the barest of minimums and still clear content does not mean it's in good online etiquette to do so. I would be very upset with anyone in my party who's too lazy to play the game. Note that I'm also referring to intentionally bad play and not lack of skill or ability. Those of us who fight lazy healers on the forums have spoken till we're blue in the face about how what matters is genuine effort and not optimal skill, but it tends to fall on deaf ears. In fact I covered this earlier in this thread:

Sorry you didn’t actually understand their point so it’s apparently moot /s

[FakeCirka]

It shouldn't matter whether or not we're talking about savage content. Your dungeon may not have an enrage, but your healer DPS may end the fight before someone makes a major mistake. The logic applies throughout FFXIV. And so what if a party can clear without healer DPS? A party can clear without the DPS doing anything but auto attacking. Just because you can do the barest of minimums and still clear content does not mean it's in good online etiquette to do so. I would be very upset with anyone in my party who's too lazy to play the game. Note that I'm also referring to intentionally bad play and not lack of skill or ability. Those of us who fight lazy healers on the forums have spoken till we're blue in the face about how what matters is genuine effort and not optimal skill, but it tends to fall on deaf ears. In fact I covered this earlier in this thread:

But you do realize there are like 80 year old grannies who play this game, or people who have physical disabilities. Those players should still be allowed to play the game and progress through the Dungeons and such, and I wouldn't call those players lazy. If there's a player who is actually capable of doing a DPS rotation while they heal but just are not because they are to lazy, yeah, that's crappy. I don't know whos on the other side of the screen, and having met more people who are in those situations and have been harassed to the point they cry and don't want to play anymore, I feel theres just no need for it in content that is forced upon you to progress the story. There's people who die in the stupid solo instances for MSQ in this game, and it must be enough players for them to add difficulty modifiers for those instances after you die. Its easy to say get good, but sometimes theres reasons for someone being a "bad player". I don't mind playing casual type content with players who only have the ability to focus one on thing at a time, that few minutes of time that would be saved isn't that important to me in over all day/night. Granted, the old me would have probably felt the same way, "Its not hard, dont be lazy, read a guide, etc", but I've met players like this and it has changed my perspective when it comes to maybe theres a reason said player is "bad" or not performing as well as they could be.

[ty_taurus]

But you do realize there are like 80 year old grannies who play this game, or people who have physical disabilities. Those players should still be allowed to play the game and progress through the Dungeons and such, and I wouldn't call those players lazy. If there's a player who is actually capable of doing a DPS rotation while they heal but just are not because they are to lazy, yeah, that's crappy. I don't know whos on the other side of the screen, and having met more people who are in those situations and have been harassed to the point they cry and don't want to play anymore, I feel theres just no need for it in content that is forced upon you to progress the story. There's people who die in the stupid solo instances for MSQ lol. Its easy to say get good, but sometimes theres reasons for someone being a "bad player". I don't mind playing casual type content with players who only have the ability to focus one on thing at a time, that few minutes of time that would be saved isn't that important to me in over all day/night. Granted, the old me would have probably felt the same way, "Its not hard, dont be lazy, read a guide, etc", but I've met players like this and it has changed my perspective when it comes to maybe theres a reason said player is "bad" or not performing as well as they could be.

Sure, selectively ignore half the comment you're responding to and pretend like I'm taking a stance against older players. Paint your picture, whatever looks more appealing hanging on your wall, I guess.

[FakeCirka]

Sure, selectively ignore half the comment you're responding to and pretend like I'm taking a stance against older players. Paint your picture, whatever looks more appealing hanging on your wall, I guess.

Wasn't trying to do anything of the sort. Of course a run goes faster if a monster dies. Literal basic logic. The longer it lives, the more risk of something bad happening, sure. I feel like we've just met different types of healers who don't do DPS I suppose, so I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Just like when I see a tank not popping CDs during big pulls, or a off tank not popping defensives on a main tank or other party members to try and help them out, or a DPS standing in avoidable AoE and clearly turning with their keyboard to move (rather than just using mouse camera movement to move). I don't just assume they are being lazy I guess. If you don't either, thats great. If someone clearly has the ability to do what ever it is they need to do but are just not, then again, I agree, thats crappy of them.

Not saying you're taking a stance against older player/what ever players, but it just sounded like you just default to "Oh great a lazy ass player" when sometimes its not like that.