It is not possible to play without doing dps as healer? every day i find someone...

[Rilifane]

I feel like its even more problematic due to the fact that the Devs don't seem to have anyone dedicated to the healer role or even somebody understanding how the actual playerbase interacts with it, combined with a dismissive attitude of viewing actual healing as more of a burden, so they need to keep it as easy and non-threatening as possible so that everyone can succeed at it, which ironically just ended up with such low healing requirements and an abundance of powerful ogcd healing tools that dpsing as a Healer becomes even more expected, while the devs at the same time actively removed dps abilities so healers don't feel pressured to dps, which they already are by the very encounter design. I mean, I'm more in favor of healer dpsing because I think its the only way of making healers an engaged and busy job that isn't just passively standing around, just due to the fact that optimization and moving closer to the skill ceiling will automatically reduce healing uptime due to the reactive nature of that role, but most people agree that healers should have more healing to do and that their healing toolkits should be more engaging.

I think this is the biggest problem. They don't understand how the playerbase interacts with healers because they don't listen and stick to their own healer fantasy while designing the game itself for something entirely different and then do a surprised pikachu face when the players don't play how they wanted them to play.
Even if they don't have a dedicated healer designer (which they desperately need), it wouldn't be as bad if they would just listen and accept the feedback of knowledgable healer mains instead of brushing it off and twisting their words. But they don't and so everything they did achieved the exact opposite of what they set out to do.

Increase healer population by making it accessible - and they dumbed it down so much that they drove off more healers than they got. Queue times for healers have never been this consistently low as they are since early ShB.

Reduce pressure on new healers to multitask by reducing dps kit complexity - and they dumbed down healing requirements and dps kit complexity so much that now everyone expects healers to dps and with good reason because it's literally one button.

There was far less pressure to dps on healer when we still had multiple dots and Cleric Stance because people knew and understood that it's not as risk-free as it is now.

[vetch]

There was far less pressure to dps on healer when we still had multiple dots and Cleric Stance because people knew and understood that it's not as risk-free as it is now.

Correct me if I'm wrong but based on what I've read (and replayed in MINE raids) there was also less DPS pressure because Coils had looser enrages than later raids and more outgoing damage, proportional to HP maximums.

[T-Owl]

I think this is the biggest problem. They don't understand how the playerbase interacts with healers because they don't listen and stick to their own healer fantasy while designing the game itself for something entirely different and then do a surprised pikachu face when the players don't play how they wanted them to play.
Even if they don't have a dedicated healer designer (which they desperately need), it wouldn't be as bad if they would just listen and accept the feedback of knowledgable healer mains instead of brushing it off and twisting their words. But they don't and so everything they did achieved the exact opposite of what they set out to do.

Increase healer population by making it accessible - and they dumbed it down so much that they drove off more healers than they got. Queue times for healers have never been this consistently low as they are since early ShB.

Reduce pressure on new healers to multitask by reducing dps kit complexity - and they dumbed down healing requirements and dps kit complexity so much that now everyone expects healers to dps and with good reason because it's literally one button.

There was far less pressure to dps on healer when we still had multiple dots and Cleric Stance because people knew and understood that it's not as risk-free as it is now.

To be honest, even without a dedicated healer designer, which they should have, Yoshi-P maybe should go back to what made the game good compared to 1.0., taking inspiration from WoW instead of being all sentimental about oldschool MMOs like the guy before him. People love to shit on WoW, but if anything the game has proven to offer the formular for a MMO with staying power and it has actually great healer core design. Every class has unique and diverse styles of how they heal and with many of them, there is some synergy between dps and healing abilities, which would be appreciated. I think the damage profile also allows casuals in low level content also much more to focus on healing and be excused instead of a push to dps, just because constant chip damage is more present.

I feel like they really missed an opportunity to take a lesson from WoW back when they decided not to make Dancer a Healer. It could have opened up more possibilities to have a healer whose damage profile is more like that of a physical ranged. In WoW, healers are not bound to be pure casters in their damage profile. You have pure casting healers like Shaman and Priest but at the same time more melee focussed healers in Paladins and Monks and Druids, who can decide if they want to owl- or catweave.

[Rilifane]

The GCBTW "we should be kind to each other uwu" prayer circle is amazing.

It's always the same:
someone says they don't want to dps. Others say that it's disrespectful to intentionally not do something that's literally ONE button. Somoene says "but they might be 80 years old or disabled or maybe just new, have you considered that???". Others say that mashing one button is still not difficult and they should still try. And then comes the best part: someone assumes they are being mean, rude and insulting to someone "not playing perfectly".

So we jumped straight from "someone refuses to dps because hEaLeRs sHoUlD hEaL and that's disrespectful to the rest of the party" to "you shouldn't insult, be mean and rude to people who may be 80 years old :c" and instantly got a sermon about how we should and nice to each other to make the world a better place<3.
Bonus points for the classic "I'd rather have a healer that doesn't dps than someone that LET'S ME DIE". How about neither? Why is one type of bad play used to excuse another type of bad play?

Let me make one thing very clear:
Nobody EVER condoned being rude, mean or insulting to someone not showing basic competency.
Nor was it EVER about "playing perfectly".
Is that so difficult to understand?

Dpsing on healer is not difficult. It's literally one button for basic damage. ONE.
The only way to not dps at least a bit on healer is either picking your nose the majority of the time or intentionally using your weakest, crappy GCD heals in order to seem busy and even then you'll have plenty of time. Contributing as much as you are able to is everyone's responsibility. You can clear any non-highend content with a healer only healing, a tank only grabbing aggro and then doing the /beesknees and the dps only auto attacking.
Doesn't mean that it's okay.

[Mortex]

The GCBTW "we should be kind to each other uwu" prayer circle is amazing.

It's always the same:
someone says they don't want to dps. Others say that it's disrespectful to intentionally not do something that's literally ONE button. Somoene says "but they might be 80 years old or disabled or maybe just new, have you considered that???". Others say that mashing one button is still not difficult and they should still try. And then comes the best part: someone assumes they are being mean, rude and insulting to someone "not playing perfectly".

So we jumped straight from "someone refuses to dps because hEaLeRs sHoUlD hEaL and that's disrespectful to the rest of the party" to "you shouldn't insult, be mean and rude to people who may be 80 years old :c" and instantly got a sermon about how we should and nice to each other to make the world a better place<3.
Bonus points for the classic "I'd rather have a healer that doesn't dps than someone that LET'S ME DIE". How about neither? Why is one type of bad play used to excuse another type of bad play?

Let me make one thing very clear:
Nobody EVER condoned being rude, mean or insulting to someone not showing basic competency.
Nor was it EVER about "playing perfectly".
Is that so difficult to understand?

Dpsing on healer is not difficult. It's literally one button for basic damage. ONE.
The only way to not dps at least a bit on healer is either picking your nose the majority of the time or intentionally using your weakest, crappy GCD heals in order to seem busy and even then you'll have plenty of time. Contributing as much as you are able to is everyone's responsibility. You can clear any non-highend content with a healer only healing, a tank only grabbing aggro and then doing the /beesknees and the dps only auto attacking.
Doesn't mean that it's okay.

It’s called toxic casuals. FF 14 has a decent number of these people. We’re trying to give helps for other people to get better or asking a simple question like “can you pls dps a little as healer” get you answers like “you don’t pay my sub” ( classic one ) or that people say that you are a rude person that is a toxic elitist.

Like I’m pretty sure some ff 14 player get out of the bed in the night having nightmares about people giving them tips on how too get better at the game.

[Semirhage]

It’s called toxic casuals. FF 14 has a decent number of these people. We’re trying to give helps for other people to get better or asking a simple question like “can you pls dps a little as healer” get you answers like “you don’t pay my sub” ( classic one ) or that people say that you are a rude person that is a toxic elitist.

Like I’m pretty sure some ff 14 player get out of the bed in the night having nightmares about people giving them tips on how too get better at the game.

For all the reputation I seem to have as resident Healer Subforum Wicked Witch, the circumstances under which I would tell one of these people to bite me is surprisingly narrow.

• New? I'll let you know that there's a lot more you can get away with than you think. If you're not ready, that's fine.
• Nervous? I'll give advice if you ask for it. Practice helps a lot.
• Tired? Yeah, probably me too. Slowing down isn't the end of the world.
• Just running roulettes and aren't interested in the details of increasing your healer skill? Okay. I've played competitive games that I was uninterested in climbing that ladder too.
• Don't think you can hack the skill ceiling? Sure, it's one dungeon for me.
• Just don't want to? I mean, it's so easy to do it that that seems extra lazy, but I can't stop you.

All that? That's cool enough. Pretending as if spamming Medica 2 makes you a genius healer, much better at the game than dirty sweaty tryhard oGCD weaving healers? Scoffing at the idea that managing your resources to minimize losses makes you a better healer? Sneering at the idea that minimizing your healing is a skillful choice rather than negligence? Yeah, that's where I call BS.

And those positions I call BS on seem to be how CBU3 thinks healers "should" be played.

[Rolder50]

Being a healer in this game without doing DPS is just a fancy way of saying "This person is AFK of 90% of the fight" since there isn't nearly enough outgoing damage to justify it. Especially in roulette content.

[Rilifane]

The only reason you have to place your fairy is because skills are tied to it. If you don't you will either miss some players, or the use will be delayed because of movement (that will also miss some players). Placing a fairy is more like circumventing a flaw than a great feature in itself. I myself ran into situations that the fairy was too far away, placed in the middle, that I wish it were right at my side to use some skills in emergencies.

You're virtually the only job with this uniqueness, other players already gather around close enough that there is no point for you to not do the same. You have to place your fairy to prevent it from move away from others and not miss your mark with your own set of skills. There is also no point of you standing too far from your party just to place your fairy in the middle of the others and heal/buff them from apart, cause you will not receive their buffs/mits/bubbles/heals. You will also have to move in anyway to use the rest of your kit that is not tied to the fairy. If you consider people gathered around a boss, and your fairy right at your side, you will probably reach everyone else around with fairy skills, no need for placement. If not, that is because your fairy moves around you with a (expected) delay and distance, staying a little bit off than you expected.

Again, fairy placement is only needed to avoid skills not reaching their desired targets because of how the pet works in itself. It is not a great thing, it is just a way to avoid problems the system in itself brings to the table. Since EW, I would rather have fairies to be instances, just like SMN lesser summons, with Seraph being the big "Bahamut of SCH" in some way. SE could bring variety to both Eos and Selene "instances", removing the nuisance that is managing pet placement.

I think you missed something here. You seem to think I'm standing in Narnia, missing heals and buffs and compensating my lack of proper positioning with the fairy. I know quite well how the fairy works.
You clearly do savage yourself so you should be aware that there are indeed mechanics that require the party to be split further than 15y from each other. Every skill that is centered on me will not reach them because I cannot go closer without killing someone. Fairy skills will. I gave several examples of where it's an advantage, either because it's simply impossible to reach someone or because it is possible but very risky. Several mechanics in UwU also come to mind where you can't move into heal range of the party or you'd nuke them.
I also never said I'm not using other skills or deliberately staying out and miss buffs. But being able to both heal across a distance you yourself are unable to bridge with your own positioning and having skills that are centered around yourself instead of only the latter is an advantage.

Placing the fairy is partly necessary to avoid delays from movement when using fairy skills on the run but it is also an advantage whenever a mechanic forces players out of range from each other. Using the latter to your advantage without missing people with fairy skills if you placed it mid and forget it there obviously requires some awareness of where the party is in relation to the fairy but saying it's only a downside is a very narrow view.

[flowerfairy]

Further, some people enjoy working with a pet that has its own GCD, which now pretty much requires playing SCH. (No matter how much CBU3 may dislike the idea, players will have that concept from other games, and will gravitate to matching jobs in FFXIV.) And let's please not repeat the absolute agony of removing the pet GCD from SMN, which resulted in this disaster: "[SE has] created phantom limb syndrome for a class in a video game. God I hate 6.0 SMN."

I joined in Shadowbringers and the main appeal of SCH for me was the fairy. I want to control it more so bad, playing around with your own GCD and the pet's GCD sounds so much fun. Aetherpact feels awful to use when you have to use your other cooldowns, and its feels okayish in the niche situations it's used. I don't know why they couldn't at least leave Embrace to be something you can still control the target of.

AoE Esuna would be a really cool and interesting form of utility if SE ever actually had fights debuff us, but there tend to be less fights that inflict debuffs than there are patches per expansion, so while it's a good concept, it doesn't really work in this world where SE's combat designers don't believe in cleansable debuffs. I'd say maybe giving Eos more healing power and Selene something like Expedient so that you have the choice of healing power or utility could be more balanced.

YES. Expedient 100% should've been a Selene move. I want fairies and the fey gauge to be reworked so Aetherpact is like a mini-Rouse for 10 seconds and Fey Blessing is 120s super good oGCD that costs a lot of gauge, like Eos has AoE Excog from PVP and Selene has Expedient. Give Eos regen, magic defense and Selene shield, GCD heal buff. And also a 60s oGCD that switches Eos/Selene so you don't have to waste damage summoning them.

The only reason you have to place your fairy is because skills are tied to it. If you don't you will either miss some players, or the use will be delayed because of movement (that will also miss some players). Placing a fairy is more like circumventing a flaw than a great feature in itself. I myself ran into situations that the fairy was too far away, placed in the middle, that I wish it were right at my side to use some skills in emergencies.

That's engaging design though. Placing and moving the fairy to optimal positions to hit teammates you can't reach makes you have to think. Turning the fairy into some ghost that follows you around is boring, and it's already half-turned into one anyways. Something I do hate though is that the fairy dies if you forget to call Heel and you walk far away, I wish it just teleported back to you instead.

[ty_taurus]

I joined in Shadowbringers and the main appeal of SCH for me was the fairy. I want to control it more so bad, playing around with your own GCD and the pet's GCD sounds so much fun. Aetherpact feels awful to use when you have to use your other cooldowns, and its feels okayish in the niche situations it's used. I don't know why they couldn't at least leave Embrace to be something you can still control the target of.



YES. Expedient 100% should've been a Selene move. I want fairies and the fey gauge to be reworked so Aetherpact is like a mini-Rouse for 10 seconds and Fey Blessing is 120s super good oGCD that costs a lot of gauge, like Eos has AoE Recitation from PVP and Selene has Expedient. Give Eos regen, magic defense and Selene shield, GCD heal buff. And also a 60s oGCD that switches Eos/Selene so you don't have to waste damage summoning them.



That's engaging design though. Placing and moving the fairy to optimal positions to hit teammates you can't reach makes you have to think. Turning the fairy into some ghost that follows you around is boring, and it's already half-turned into one anyways. Something I do hate though is that the fairy dies if you forget to call Heel and you walk far away, I wish it just teleported back to you instead.

My current thought process on SCH, in short, looks something like this:

Remove Embrace as just auto-healing and make Aetherpact something you have right away as your faerie's main source of healing. This gives you more control over who your faerie heals, and the faerie will follow whomever she's tethered to unless placed. This no longer consumes your fey gauge, and the potency is brought down to Embrace levels for balance reasons. Also, using faerie actions will not break the Aetherpact. Only manually canceling it, or the target running away from a placed faerie will break the tether.

The fey gauge instead becomes your main healing gauge, and Aetherflow is repurposed for offensive tools instead. There's no need to have two gauges that revolve around the same thing, in my mind, so splitting these two resources and enhancing both seems ideal.

Recitation changes to a GCD action that gives you 1 Aetherflow and 20 Fey Gauge on a 60 second cooldown with 2 charges that you get much earlier. In addition to specific faerie actions, you also have Feyshine and Fey Brilliance, mimicking a bit of the SMN changes while also making the transition from ACN to SCH less confusing to new players. Feyshine and Fey Brilliance change based on which faerie you have summoned. Eos enables more heal-focused actions like Indomitability while Selene enables more support actions like Eye for an Eye. These are all GCD actions that generate 1 Aetherflow and cost 20 Fey Gauge. As for separate faerie actions, Eos keeps Whispering Dawn and Fey Blessing while Selene has a new MP restoration action for you and Expedient. (The idea is MP becomes more of an actual resource and less background noise).

Your DPS actions as SCH would be:

Broil - Your standard DPS button.
Biolysis - Your instant cast DoT.
Miasmolysis - Restoring your second DoT that has a cast time.
Art of War - Your AoE, now also gives you a 5% crit buff when used for 45 seconds, making it useful in single target situations. Can still be spammed for dungeon trash.
Shadowflare - returning your DoT field that sits on a 60 second cooldown on the GCD. Also makes your next Adlo or Succor give you 1 Aetherflow.
Ruin II/Kaustra - Finally upgrading your mobility tool to something unique to SCH and not a 10 year old animation hand-me-down from SMN.

You can use Libra now to consume 1 Aetherflow which changes your DPS buttons for your next cast.

Broil becomes Fester, dealing double Broil's damage normally plus an additional 100 potency per DoT you've placed on the enemy.
Biolysis becomes Pain, a third DoT.
Miasmolysis becomes Bane for spreading your DoTs.
Art of War becomes Meltdown, an AoE of double Art of War's strength. Still grants the crit buff.
Ruin II/Kaustra becomes Rasp, dealing double Broil's damage and gives you 30 more Fey Gauge. A DPS loss over Fester but useful in a pinch if you need more healing power.
Shadowflare does not change with Aetherflow.