the 12!!!!! omg !!!!!!

[Cleretic]

And the gods of the Spoken of Eorzea... are exactly they way they are in the myths. The same appearance, the same relations to each other, the same personalities, the same names, the same heavenly realms. Rhalgr even bears a striking resemblance to the statue of him in his main temple, which was previously thought to be based on an Archon from a previous age. The Eorzeans, alone among the cultures of the world, were exactly right about their gods, who provably exist and aren't just the creation magic-made shells the primals are.

I personally think that we're not gonna learn they're exactly as they appear so far, even if they're definitely not false gods. Alliance raids don't get as wild as normal raids, but they still go pretty crazy, and there's plenty of room for our expectations to be twisted and turned around. In fact, I expect it, because there's clearly framework for additional story than just 'the Twelve are real and we're throwing down'; if they don't have anything else going on then the two new characters they introduced are gonna have very little to do.

My main evidence there is that even the four gods we've already met have had symbols or tools that could only come from man; Byregot has a blacksmith's hammer, Azeyma has paper fans, Nald'thal have measurement scales and their symbol is outright mentioned to be a shell that's an ancient form of currency. This kinda knocks out a lot of the cleanest origins; they can't be of Ancient origin (since they wouldn't know a blacksmith if Gerolt smacked 'em in the face), they can't be of alien origin (since the cowry comes from ubiquitous shellfish), and they can't be of some kind of primordial origin (since a paper fan needs a creator). At least, not without some changing of shape and concept over time; even if Eorzean religion is 'objectively correct', it seems more likely that rather than them getting it right, that the deities changed form to fit the religion, at least to some degree.

[sidurgu-12]

I personally think that we're not gonna learn they're exactly as they appear so far, even if they're definitely not false gods. Alliance raids don't get as wild as normal raids, but they still go pretty crazy, and there's plenty of room for our expectations to be twisted and turned around. In fact, I expect it, because there's clearly framework for additional story than just 'the Twelve are real and we're throwing down'; if they don't have anything else going on then the two new characters they introduced are gonna have very little to do.

My main evidence there is that even the four gods we've already met have had symbols or tools that could only come from man; Byregot has a blacksmith's hammer, Azeyma has paper fans, Nald'thal have measurement scales and their symbol is outright mentioned to be a shell that's an ancient form of currency. This kinda knocks out a lot of the cleanest origins; they can't be of Ancient origin (since they wouldn't know a blacksmith if Gerolt smacked 'em in the face), they can't be of alien origin (since the cowry comes from ubiquitous shellfish), and they can't be of some kind of primordial origin (since a paper fan needs a creator). At least, not without some changing of shape and concept over time; even if Eorzean religion is 'objectively correct', it seems more likely that rather than them getting it right, that the deities changed form to fit the religion, at least to some degree.

that has a high chance of being true. though personally i think it was the religion that changed over time rather than the gods. mainly because of the differences between real and myth nald'thal.

[Layte_Aeon]

My personal speculations about them are that they're akin to FFIX's Eidolons: Creations of the world itself, forged from the memories within souls as they pass through the lifestream.

[SentioftheHoukai]

As much as I disagree on the point of the Ancients being supremacists of their own species (not the Ascians, mind you. They were pretty comically "bad guys" as much as Square could make 'em. Turns out there IS a difference!) I also concur on the rejection of the proposition that EVERY Primal and/or God in Eorzea and beyond being rooted in inspiration from the Ancient civilization. There's simply too many discrepancies. Where did Bismarck come from? Ravana, Susano'o? None of THEM seem like Elpis concepts or any of the Twelve.

As for Halone, I am mostly interested in if she shares the same pro-Ishgardian Elezen tendencies that pre-End of Dragonsong Ishgard tended to have and most likely attributed to her. Because for as much as Ye Olde Ishgard attributed the worst of their atrocities to the "Will of Halone" I rather suspect she'd be verbally disagreeing HEAVILY with half the shit they pulled if she had been permitted to reveal herself.

[Iscah]

The Eorzeans, alone among the cultures of the world, were exactly right about their gods, who provably exist and aren't just the creation magic-made shells the primals are.

I think the key thing to consider here is that we haven't learned that "the Eorzean beliefs are correct", we've learned that "the Eorzean beliefs are based on ongoing sightings of living beings who exist here and now".

The other tribes' gods come from distorted memories of something long past, that can't be checked or compared against the modern belief so easily.

But Eorzea's religion is "real" because apparently the Twelve were real to begin with, and people occasionally have real visions of them exactly as they are, and that information lines up with other records and visions to create a potentially very incorrect belief based on a real thing.

I do agree it seems a bit too neat for my liking, as does Elpis (and Amaurot for that matter), but it's what we've got to work with now.

[sidurgu-12]

As much as I disagree on the point of the Ancients being supremacists of their own species (not the Ascians, mind you. They were pretty comically "bad guys" as much as Square could make 'em. Turns out there IS a difference!) I also concur on the rejection of the proposition that EVERY Primal and/or God in Eorzea and beyond being rooted in inspiration from the Ancient civilization. There's simply too many discrepancies. Where did Bismarck come from? Ravana, Susanoo? None of THEM seem like Elpis concepts or any of the Twelve.

As for Halone, I am mostly interested in if she shares the same pro-Ishgardian Elezen tendencies that pre-End of Dragonsong Ishgard tended to have and most likely attributed to her. Because for as much as Ye Olde Ishgard attributed the worst of their atrocities to the "Will of Halone" I rather suspect she'd be verbally disagreeing HEAVILY with half the shit they pulled if she had been permitted to reveal herself.

from what little i know (i really need to get the encyclopedias lol) and understand the ishgardians rewrote halones teachings in order to include "all dragons and sympathizers are heretics" so while she is a war goddess yeah i agree, i don't think she'll be on board with the dragon war.

[Larirawiel]

My personal speculations about them are that they're akin to FFIX's Eidolons: Creations of the world itself, forged from the memories within souls as they pass through the lifestream.

And my speculation is:

This are the twelve Amaourotians, who surrendered themself to summon Hydaelyn. You can see them in the Amnesis Anyder cutscene:

Cheers

[sidurgu-12]

And my speculation is:

This are the twelve Amaourotians, who surrendered themself to summon Hydaelyn. You can see them in the Amnesis Anyder cutscene:

Cheers

this is from a qa but

its been confirmed that since there were a lot fewer summoners compared to zodiark they had to be consumed entirely so like hydaelyn they cease to exist.

[WellGramarye]

As much as I disagree on the point of the Ancients being supremacists of their own species (not the Ascians, mind you. They were pretty comically "bad guys" as much as Square could make 'em. Turns out there IS a difference!) I also concur on the rejection of the proposition that EVERY Primal and/or God in Eorzea and beyond being rooted in inspiration from the Ancient civilization. There's simply too many discrepancies. Where did Bismarck come from? Ravana, Susanoo? None of THEM seem like Elpis concepts or any of the Twelve.

As for Halone, I am mostly interested in if she shares the same pro-Ishgardian Elezen tendencies that pre-End of Dragonsong Ishgard tended to have and most likely attributed to her. Because for as much as Ye Olde Ishgard attributed the worst of their atrocities to the "Will of Halone" I rather suspect she'd be verbally disagreeing HEAVILY with half the shit they pulled if she had been permitted to reveal herself.

Addressing the bolded:

Bismark existed on the First as a living creature, and in Elpis there is a flying whale creature that is similar as an A rank.

Ravana may be based on an ancient Allagan design as there is a boss in the Fractal Contiuum (and again in the Hard mode) that is very similar. The Gnath may be descendants of Allagan creations like the Ixal. It could also be because its a giant bug boss and they're bugs.

Susano is a slightly different type of being, as its summoned from 3 objects that are considered sacred to the Kojin. Susano is a big turtle samurai.

[Cleretic]

And my speculation is:

This are the twelve Amaourotians, who surrendered themself to summon Hydaelyn. You can see them in the Amnesis Anyder cutscene:

Cheers

This logic functioned at first, but doesn't anymore for one big reason:

One of those twelve is accounted for, as the Watcher.