What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Brinne]

Also, Athena is my new queen. An Ancient woman being portrayed as an outright villain and flaunting it like the narc she is? How refreshingly honest!

ATHENA APPRECIATOR HIGH FIVE. I might be kind of in love with her and it's a little concerning actually

[Lauront]

Also, Athena is my new queen. An Ancient woman being portrayed as an outright villain and flaunting it like the narc she is? How refreshingly honest! If only all narcissistic Ancient women could be like this.......

Venat, without the "SHE LOVES YOU" shaming for not accepting her gift of sundering.

[Rulakir]

I lost respect for the Watcher. I also feel like this story implies her followers were so beguiled by her they would've done whatever she wanted without question. It's interesting to note that the JP translation of the Omega quest chain doesn't say 'those who shared her vision' but 'those who adored her'.

Venat reminds me of Hathor from "Gods of Egypt" where she uses the power of love to command others into doing her bidding. I know people have debunked that her name is supposed to be Venus in JP, but it sure does seem like that's a special ability of hers to enthrall others. It also brings into question if she was really that brilliant or others fluffed her up because they were so enchanted by her. (This is totally my new headcanon, by the way.)

[Atelier-Bagur]

I'll just say that people having issues with the writers apparent "trying" to paint Venat as this benevolent person lately is something thats was there from the start of the game. Aka big crystal Hydaelyn.

It was obvious that Hydaelyn wasn't gonna be some Disney twist villain a lot of you expected or wanted to be when in most of the mythos in the FF series, the mother crystal was always something that is revered to be good in their lore. FFXIV is no different cept that they gave the mother crystal an actual character.

[Theodric]

I'll just say that people having issues with the writers apparent "trying" to paint Venat as this benevolent person lately is something thats was there from the start of the game. Aka big crystal Hydaelyn.

It was obvious that Hydaelyn wasn't gonna be some Disney twist villain a lot of you expected or wanted to be when in most of the mythos in the FF series, the mother crystal was always something that is revered to be good in their lore. FFXIV is no different cept that they gave the mother crystal an actual character.

Hardly anyone here has been asking for Hydaelyn to be a straight up villain. It was suggested that in the context of her story it would make sense for her to be well meaning antagonist who happened to benefit the Sundered but still needed to be stopped and called out for the horrific atrocities she committed on the Unsundered. No amount of handwaving makes genocide suddenly acceptable - let alone to those who happen to be the victims of it.

My own stance is that it makes perfect sense for the Sundered not to want to roll over and die for the sake of the Unsundered but the reverse is true as well. The game can disagree with that all it wants, can gaslight into pretending Venat is some quirky 'herois' and straight up retcon lore in a vain effort to make her look better...but I strongly disagree that it was 'always obvious' that she was going to be a perfect loving goddess. She was literally a talking crystal who never spoke in clear terms and shifted the blame from herself to those she deliberately tormented.

At this point the best way to salvage Venat would be to create some sort of alternate universe and quietly shuffle the Ancients over there so they can have their happy ending. If, at any point, the writers try to double down on the 'Ancients deserved to be genocided' rhetoric then I'm sure you can imagine the frustration and backlash that will arise.

Generally speaking if we wouldn't consider something acceptable for the protagonists to be subjected to then there's no reason anybody else in the setting needs to be fine with it happening to them.

[RyuDragnier]

Yet people try to justify the genocide the Ancients attempt to do through the sacrifices as a good thing. I'm sorry, but the Ancients in general have really skewed morals and the entire event in the past is horribly gray. Stop trying to paint the race as pure black or white, accept the fact that they're all horrible people with good intentions, and move on.

[Rulakir]

Maybe if the sundered weren't objectively worse in every possible way.

[PawPaw]

Yet people try to justify the genocide the Ancients attempt to do through the sacrifices as a good thing. I'm sorry, but the Ancients in general have really skewed morals and the entire event in the past is horribly gray. Stop trying to paint the race as pure black or white, accept the fact that they're all horrible people with good intentions, and move on.

Sorry, I don't need to accept "they're all horrible people with good intentions" as anything even vaguely resembling fact, thanks. We are shown pretty clearly that for the vast majority, basic human decency is the norm and that when the occasional errant deviant shows up in society, that they are not shown as being even remotely acceptable. They are certainly not trying to play god and are trying to do their best with the immeasurable power they've been granted for the sake of their world. What horrible people. Much Bad.

[Teraq]

Yet people try to justify the genocide the Ancients attempt to do through the sacrifices as a good thing. I'm sorry, but the Ancients in general have really skewed morals and the entire event in the past is horribly gray. Stop trying to paint the race as pure black or white, accept the fact that they're all horrible people with good intentions, and move on.

Uh... what genocide? The one of willing people to stop the literal end of the world? The one of other willing people to literally kickstart life back up on a rotting planet? Or the one of a portion of wildlife that was kickstarted by the previous one, to bring back the willing people that were left actually alive in limbo within Zodiark? Is this the one we're calling "genocide"?

[Theodric]

Yet people try to justify the genocide the Ancients attempt to do through the sacrifices as a good thing. I'm sorry, but the Ancients in general have really skewed morals and the entire event in the past is horribly gray. Stop trying to paint the race as pure black or white, accept the fact that they're all horrible people with good intentions, and move on.

Fixing a problem deliberately inflicted upon a society with the intention of wiping them out is a different beast. With that said, many Ancient fans have actually pushed for a 'third way forward' where there's a happy ending for both the Sundered and the Unsundered. The game's already handwaving how things can wrap up in a neat little bow when it benefits the protagonists after all.

As for 'moving on'? No, thank you. Putting aside the fact that I don't buy into the idea that the Ancients are 'horrible people' I've noticed a trend where the same people insisting that the Scions have to be front and centre at every opportunity and clad in excessive plot armour like to demand that those of us who like other aspects of the setting should just shut up about the things we like in a game notorious for fanservice. A bit strange, in all honesty.