Some jobs aren’t well-balanced in dungeons

[Supersnow845]

The game is simply not balanced with dungeons in mind due to the presence of heavy AoE, raid buffs being designed in the context of 8 player party and the wider skill spectrum normal mode dungeons have over high end duties. This is not a problem because dungeons rarely push any job to the point no other member in the party can't compensate, by design, so there is never a situation of a job being "too difficult to meet the requirements to clear" since the bar to clear is at ground level.

Criterion dungeons "may" need to balance some things especially if dps is a metric as important as in savage but its too early to say anything about that yet



Sch while having the strongest AoE GCD isn't strong enough to compensate for its lack of AoE damage cooldowns and its raid debuff is only applied to one enemy which has a lot less value in AoE scenarios + ED being single target not only means Aetherflow healing as Sch still implies a dps loss but doesn't give that much of a gain over things like Missery so... I guess that's why the OP said that? Weird that they mention Sch and not Ast which is the weakest dungeon healer while Sch even with all the previous things isn't that much behind the top 2

SCH exceeds WHM in 90% of pulls (the only pull it’s weaker than WHM is a very short pull where they dump a misery) but yeah it’s weaker than SGE because SGE has three AOE DPS gain skills over dyskrasia while SCH has none and SCH’s extra damage abilities as you say scale horribly in dungeons

But yeah if you want to mention bad dungeon scaling for healers AST is 100% the one you want to discuss

[NekoMataMata]

As a DRK main, i have never, ever, ever experienced that. It performs just fine. All tanks can do wall to wall pulls.

That's not entirely true though. DRK doesn't have anywhere close to the sustain of even GNB, much less in comparison to PLD or WAR. You can W2W on DRK but you need both your healer and the DRK to know what they're doing.

The skill floor for DRK is a bit higher than the other three(which isn't a bad thing but it matters). There is no misery as great as having to heal a bad DRK. If I have a choice of what tank I want someone with zero braincells to be playing, it's not going to be DRK, even if I'm not allowed to pick WAR.

[Nizzi]

Sch while having the strongest AoE GCD isn't strong enough to compensate for its lack of AoE damage cooldowns and its raid debuff is only applied to one enemy which has a lot less value in AoE scenarios

Give SCH the PvP Deployment Tactics Bane already SE you cowards, it would at least give SCH 2 AoE DPS abilities instead of 1 and nobody is using Deployment Tactics in dungeon trash pulls anyways

[Tlamila]

Give SCH the PvP Deployment Tactics Bane already SE you cowards, it would at least give SCH 2 AoE DPS abilities instead of 1 and nobody is using Deployment Tactics in dungeon trash pulls anyways

SCH used to have an aoe dot from what I recall, wasn't it Virus? They deleted it.
Just like they removed Aero 3 (also aoe dot) from WHM.
I'll never understand it.

[Saraide]

That's not entirely true though. DRK doesn't have anywhere close to the sustain of even GNB, much less in comparison to PLD or WAR.

Plus the skill floor for DRK is a bit higher than the other three(which isn't a bad thing but it matters). There is no misery as great as having to heal a bad DRK. If I have a choice of what tank I want someone with zero braincells to be playing, it's not going to be DRK, even if I'm not allowed to pick WAR.

Heart of conundrum isnt going to save a tank that is never using it.

[Supersnow845]

SCH used to have an aoe dot from what I recall, wasn't it Virus? They deleted it.
Just like they removed Aero 3 (also aoe dot) from WHM.
I'll never understand it.

SCH used to have bane which spread its DOT’s, shadowflare was naturally AOE though, virus reduced strength and dexterity

[Tlamila]

SCH used to have bane which spread its DOT’s, shadowflare was naturally AOE though, virus reduced strength and dexterity

My bad, I got confused, I never played SCH much.
In any case they did have those things and hav them removed, even more than I remembered, no dice getting them back. Very sad.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Some tuning to jobs based on dungeons would help Dark Knight be less of a pain to do big pulls as most of their problems with mitigation and self-sustain is most evident in dungeon content. If dungeon balance was considered more, it wouldn’t feel as bad to take into dungeons and people would stop automatically leaving or harassing you because you chose to play DRK.

Pardon me... just how often this "I got harassed for playing X jobs in dungeon"-case happens? I'll be honest, your post is literally the first one I ever read and/or hear. Either way, that's very reportable.

It would also help Scholar not have to burn through so many resources during trash packs which other healers can do with less effort. Or when paired with a bad tank who doesn’t use their mitigations. And party buffs like chain strat or bard songs barely feel like they do much in dungeons.

At this point of reading, I'd like to ask you this: why do you think they need it? Would you like to solo sustain yourself with DRK like WARs do? Would you like to be able heal your party with DRK like PLD do in the event your healer drops dead? Would you like SCH have their version of Benediction or Macrocosmos just so they can have their own "Nope"-button vs incoming damage?

As a SCH main, I have to say that they absolutely don't need anymore help in dungeons in healing department. There is not any moment I've seen a SCH failing to keep their party alive because of the job itself; it's always because they choose the wrong buttons and/or misjudges situations on hand. Those aren't job's issue; it's skills issue.

I think some problems people have with jobs could be solved if dungeon balance was considered more. If dungeons are supposed to be clearable by all jobs, I don’t see why some jobs should require more skill to do as well as others within it.

The key thing is: they are all viable. The only real solution to this dillema you dislike is to turn every single jobs to play exactly the same way. At that point, one has to ask why do we even need 19 jobs across 3 roles...? You cannot have varieties without introducing even the slightest amount of gameplay nuances and/or hinderances that will inevitably make one job requires more effort than the other. And that is fine. If you don't like a tank that trades their self sustenance lightly for slightly more offensive edge (DRK), there's always 3 other tanks (PLD WAR GNB) to pick up that can sustain themselves better, at different degree of effectiveness.

I swear these sort of requests has been giving me PTSD ever since they took away WAR’s conal Overpower. Now they feel too similar to play w/ all tanks. Why did I even waste my time to learn maneuver the different shape of AoE when the solution to that is to just keep complaining until they change it…

[Supersnow845]

I was so hyper focused on the SCH comment because it’s my main that I didn’t even see the “people leave because a DRK is the tank comment”

I’m sorry but when does that ever happen, this honestly just sounds like a “the dungeon didn’t go well because either i was bad or the healer is used to expert roulette WAR’s so il gonna complain so that DRK becomes a tank that doesn’t need healers like WAR”

[Equitable_Remedy]

Another thing to consider is that dungeons are casual content, and many people play them (very, extremely) casually—it's hard to get an accurate gauge of where jobs stand.

I'm going to make a very bold prediction: like savage raids, the savage dungeon will be clearable with all jobs.