Some jobs aren’t well-balanced in dungeons

[HyonaCookie]

I think there’s a problem with how jobs aren’t well-balanced for dungeons. Dungeons are played by the majority of the playerbase compared to raids and a lot of people judge jobs from how they play in casual content. While all jobs can clear content, some jobs are just strictly better for dungeons while others take more effort or bring too little to the party.

Some tuning to jobs based on dungeons would help Dark Knight be less of a pain to do big pulls as most of their problems with mitigation and self-sustain is most evident in dungeon content. If dungeon balance was considered more, it wouldn’t feel as bad to take into dungeons and people would stop automatically leaving or harassing you because you chose to play DRK. It would also help Scholar not have to burn through so many resources during trash packs which other healers can do with less effort. Or when paired with a bad tank who doesn’t use their mitigations. And party buffs like chain strat or bard songs barely feel like they do much in dungeons.

I think some problems people have with jobs could be solved if dungeon balance was considered more. If dungeons are supposed to be clearable by all jobs, I don’t see why some jobs should require more skill to do as well as others within it.

[GoatOfWar]

As a DRK main, i have never, ever, ever experienced that. It performs just fine. All tanks can do wall to wall pulls.

[RyuDragnier]

As a DRK main, i have never, ever, ever experienced that. It performs just fine. All tanks can do wall to wall pulls.

As another DRK main, I know for a fact we're more dependent on the healer than the others, which is part of the issue with w2w pulls. All they need to do really is make it so Abyssal Drain has a 30s CD instead of 1m, and up its healing from 200 cure potency per target hit (which is a horrible joke) to 400 cure potency per target hit. This fixes the issue for dungeons without really effecting it in boss fights, where DRK shines pretty well already.

[NekoMataMata]

As a DRK main, i have never, ever, ever experienced that. It performs just fine. All tanks can do wall to wall pulls.

That's not entirely true though. DRK doesn't have anywhere close to the sustain of even GNB, much less in comparison to PLD or WAR. You can W2W on DRK but you need both your healer and the DRK to know what they're doing.

The skill floor for DRK is a bit higher than the other three(which isn't a bad thing but it matters). There is no misery as great as having to heal a bad DRK. If I have a choice of what tank I want someone with zero braincells to be playing, it's not going to be DRK, even if I'm not allowed to pick WAR.

[Saraide]

That's not entirely true though. DRK doesn't have anywhere close to the sustain of even GNB, much less in comparison to PLD or WAR.

Plus the skill floor for DRK is a bit higher than the other three(which isn't a bad thing but it matters). There is no misery as great as having to heal a bad DRK. If I have a choice of what tank I want someone with zero braincells to be playing, it's not going to be DRK, even if I'm not allowed to pick WAR.

Heart of conundrum isnt going to save a tank that is never using it.

[Tlamila]

Mh DRK has a load of mitigations and the new living dead is pretty powerful self-heal. Also, never heard of anybody complain about playing DRK in dungeons, less so leaving.
SCH has excog which for pulls is super sweet, the fairy doing part of the job. I'm super bad at it and yet always found it's much more efficient in dungeons than whm or sge.

That said, "dungeon balance" never mattered cause dungeons aren't hard content and can be very easily cleared with any job. Differences are mostly in player skills.
Now that we're getting criterion though, maybe they'll start to matter more for balance, but of course criterion ones, normal dungeons are a non-problem.

[Supersnow845]

Where are you getting the idea SCH is inefficient in dungeons, SCH is arguably better in dungeons than raids where even in raids it’s the strongest healer because ED doesn’t matter in trash packs so you have unlimited access to excog, sacred soil and lustrate, SCH with complete access to every heal in its toolkit has a terrifying amount of healing plus its AOE spam spell does a massive amount of damage for a healer

[WaxSw]

The game is simply not balanced with dungeons in mind due to the presence of heavy AoE, raid buffs being designed in the context of 8 player party and the wider skill spectrum normal mode dungeons have over high end duties. This is not a problem because dungeons rarely push any job to the point no other member in the party can't compensate, by design, so there is never a situation of a job being "too difficult to meet the requirements to clear" since the bar to clear is at ground level.

Criterion dungeons "may" need to balance some things especially if dps is a metric as important as in savage but its too early to say anything about that yet

Where are you getting the idea SCH is inefficient in dungeons, SCH is arguably better in dungeons than raids where even in raids it’s the strongest healer because ED doesn’t matter in trash packs so you have unlimited access to excog, sacred soil and lustrate, SCH with complete access to every heal in its toolkit has a terrifying amount of healing plus its AOE spam spell does a massive amount of damage for a healer

Sch while having the strongest AoE GCD isn't strong enough to compensate for its lack of AoE damage cooldowns and its raid debuff is only applied to one enemy which has a lot less value in AoE scenarios + ED being single target not only means Aetherflow healing as Sch still implies a dps loss but doesn't give that much of a gain over things like Missery so... I guess that's why the OP said that? Weird that they mention Sch and not Ast which is the weakest dungeon healer while Sch even with all the previous things isn't that much behind the top 2

[Supersnow845]

The game is simply not balanced with dungeons in mind due to the presence of heavy AoE, raid buffs being designed in the context of 8 player party and the wider skill spectrum normal mode dungeons have over high end duties. This is not a problem because dungeons rarely push any job to the point no other member in the party can't compensate, by design, so there is never a situation of a job being "too difficult to meet the requirements to clear" since the bar to clear is at ground level.

Criterion dungeons "may" need to balance some things especially if dps is a metric as important as in savage but its too early to say anything about that yet



Sch while having the strongest AoE GCD isn't strong enough to compensate for its lack of AoE damage cooldowns and its raid debuff is only applied to one enemy which has a lot less value in AoE scenarios + ED being single target not only means Aetherflow healing as Sch still implies a dps loss but doesn't give that much of a gain over things like Missery so... I guess that's why the OP said that? Weird that they mention Sch and not Ast which is the weakest dungeon healer while Sch even with all the previous things isn't that much behind the top 2

SCH exceeds WHM in 90% of pulls (the only pull it’s weaker than WHM is a very short pull where they dump a misery) but yeah it’s weaker than SGE because SGE has three AOE DPS gain skills over dyskrasia while SCH has none and SCH’s extra damage abilities as you say scale horribly in dungeons

But yeah if you want to mention bad dungeon scaling for healers AST is 100% the one you want to discuss

[Nizzi]

Sch while having the strongest AoE GCD isn't strong enough to compensate for its lack of AoE damage cooldowns and its raid debuff is only applied to one enemy which has a lot less value in AoE scenarios

Give SCH the PvP Deployment Tactics Bane already SE you cowards, it would at least give SCH 2 AoE DPS abilities instead of 1 and nobody is using Deployment Tactics in dungeon trash pulls anyways