the normal content is too easy

[SnowVix]

The 24-mans aren’t nearly as difficult as the likes of Weeping City, Dun Scaith, and Orbonne on release. Extremes are so easy they can be done with one or no healers at release, which the latter was a completely new phenomenon. They’re definitely not the same difficulty as the HW ones. Or even some of the SB Extremes. And Savage itself is not as difficult as it used to be. And I don’t mean the overtuned mess that was Gordias, but Midas. Or even some of the Creator fights (Cruise Chaser). There are a handful of redeeming fights after HW (O3S, O4S door boss, O11S, E8S, E12S door boss), and some still that are fun enough to excuse their easier difficulty.

I, too, like to compare the first tier of content to late expansion tiers and pretend it's a valid comparison.

[HyoMinPark]

I, too, like to compare the first tier of content to late expansion tiers and pretend it's a valid comparison.

What are you even talking about? Did you read what I wrote, or did you just opt to spout off nonsense? It’s a fact that a lot of older content was a lot more challenging on release when you compare it to what we have now.

Anyone who says that Aglaia or Hydaelyn EX or Zodiark EX or P1S are harder than some of the content I mentioned clearly never did the old fights when they were relevant.

Rabanastre was more challenging than Aglaia was, since you’re so insistent on a “first tier only” comparison. Rabanastre was more challenging than Copied Factory. Weeping City was harder than Puppet’s Bunker. I’d say it was also harder than Ridorana. Dun Scaith and Orbonne are relatively the same difficulty, but they both torch Tower at Paradigm’s Breach. I have no expectations that the second and third tiers of The Twelve will live up to the absolute insanity that was Orbonne when it was relevant. Considering how much people complained about the latter.

Cruise Chaser (A11S) and Omega (O11S) were most certainly harder than Daddy Thancred (E11S). Daddy’s Thancred’s most complicated phase is the last one and a decent party skipped 2/3 of his cycles at the end.

As crappy as Bismarck EX was, you weren’t seeing it done with NO HEALERS during its relevant patch. Same with Ravana EX. Lakshmi could be done with one healer, but not with none. Neither could Susano. People didn’t start dropping the healer until the end of the expansion. No other EX have lived up to Thordan EX or Sephirot EX, relevant patch equivalent or later. For the latter, you’re speaking nonsense if you try to say Byakko EX or Ruby Weapon EX were anywhere close to the difficulty of Sephirot. And I doubt any x.2 EX will ever beat him. Shinryu and Hades EX were good fights, but Thordan wipes the floor with both of them. And we don’t talk about the massive disappointment that is Endsinger EX.

Midas in and of itself was harder than Sigmascape and Eden’s Verse combined. I enjoyed God Kefka (O8S) and Shiva (E8S) as fights, but it’s laughable to say they hold a torch to Brute Justice (A8S). Rock ‘em Sock ‘em Robots (A6S) were nerfed while relevant; meanwhile, Chadarnook (O6S) was a literal striking dummy. Ifrit/Garuda and their love child boss (E6S) were harder than Chadarnook, but that’s a low bar to beat.

But tell me you never did the fights I listed when they were relevant without telling me you never did them when they were relevant.

[Striker44]

What are you even talking about? Did you read what I wrote, or did you just opt to spout off nonsense? It’s a fact that a lot of older content was a lot more challenging on release when you compare it to what we have now.

You were comparing Aglaia (the first raid in its series) to the later raids of other series. Instead of comparing it to Dun Scaith, for example, the equivalent comparison would be Void Ark, which is absurdly easier compared to Dun Scaith.

Your response here then sends the entire rest of its time talking about EX and Savage content, when the thread itself is specifically about normal content.

It seems like a massive passive-aggressive rant to detract from the reality that a good point was made refuting your original post.

[HyoMinPark]

You were comparing Aglaia (the first raid in its series) to the later raids of other series. Instead of comparing it to Dun Scaith, for example, the equivalent comparison would be Void Ark, which is absurdly easier compared to Dun Scaith.

Your response here then sends the entire rest of its time talking about EX and Savage content, when the thread itself is specifically about normal content.

It seems like a massive passive-aggressive rant to detract from the reality that a good point was made refuting your original post.

This response seems like an attempt at a witty response that also didn’t actually read my original post. I stated 24-mans in general—not Aglaia specifically. If you want a specific equivalent comparison, I already supplied them in the response you called a *checks notes* “massive passive-aggressive rant”. For Void Ark specifically, considering the developers themselves said they made the raid too easy, I think that says all that needs to be said there. I doubt part 2 in this series will live up to Weeping City on content. Ridorana didn’t. Puppet’s Bunker certainly didn’t. Same for part 3.

As for the rest: if the Extreme and Savage content is getting progressively easier, what do you think normal content is doing? Also getting progressively easier. Dungeons are about as boring as they’ve always been, but EW didn’t even have that one that stood out as spicy the way HW (The Vault), SB (Bardam’s Mettle), or even ShB (Holminster Switch) did. Tower of Zot has one spicy pull before the last boss. That’s about it.

But keep trying to act like normal content is somehow more challenging than it was in the past. Or even in general.

[ForteNightshade]

You were comparing Aglaia (the first raid in its series) to the later raids of other series. Instead of comparing it to Dun Scaith, for example, the equivalent comparison would be Void Ark, which is absurdly easier compared to Dun Scaith.

Your response here then sends the entire rest of its time talking about EX and Savage content, when the thread itself is specifically about normal content.

It seems like a massive passive-aggressive rant to detract from the reality that a good point was made refuting your original post.

It may have been a decent rebuttal... if the person HyoMin originally quoted wasn't talking about high-end content. Her response is directly in regards to endgame content equally becoming watered down so players have even less to partake it with some actual teeth.

As for Aglaia. The whole "first raid" argument doesn't work when you consider alliance raids have never been balanced like that. Rabanastre, for example, was noticeably harder than anything Nier offered at release despite it being the first raid of the series. Weeping City eclipsed World of Darkness, Ridorana, Nier and even matched up to Dun Scaith yet was only the second raid. Void Ark is the one exception which even the devs themselves admitted was significantly undertuned. 24 mans haven't followed a set difficulty pattern for the most part.

[Packetdancer]

Ifrit/Garuda and their love child boss (E6S) were harder than Chadarnook, but that’s a low bar to beat.

I'd also posit that an unfortunate amount of E6S' own difficulty may have come from the arena design; I know a lot of people who didn't know they had partial colorblindness until they discovered they literally could not see the wind nails against the arena floor.

[MagusMirel]

What are you even talking about? Did you read what I wrote, or did you just opt to spout off nonsense? It’s a fact that a lot of older content was a lot more challenging on release when you compare it to what we have now.

Anyone who says that Aglaia or Hydaelyn EX or Zodiark EX or P1S are harder than some of the content I mentioned clearly never did the old fights when they were relevant.

Rabanastre was more challenging than Aglaia was, since you’re so insistent on a “first tier only” comparison. Rabanastre was more challenging than Copied Factory. Weeping City was harder than Puppet’s Bunker. I’d say it was also harder than Ridorana. Dun Scaith and Orbonne are relatively the same difficulty, but they both torch Tower at Paradigm’s Breach. I have no expectations that the second and third tiers of The Twelve will live up to the absolute insanity that was Orbonne when it was relevant. Considering how much people complained about the latter.

Cruise Chaser (A11S) and Omega (O11S) were most certainly harder than Daddy Thancred (E11S). Daddy’s Thancred’s most complicated phase is the last one and a decent party skipped 2/3 of his cycles at the end.

As crappy as Bismarck EX was, you weren’t seeing it done with NO HEALERS during its relevant patch. Same with Ravana EX. Lakshmi could be done with one healer, but not with none. Neither could Susano. People didn’t start dropping the healer until the end of the expansion. No other EX have lived up to Thordan EX or Sephirot EX, relevant patch equivalent or later. For the latter, you’re speaking nonsense if you try to say Byakko EX or Ruby Weapon EX were anywhere close to the difficulty of Sephirot. And I doubt any x.2 EX will ever beat him. Shinryu and Hades EX were good fights, but Thordan wipes the floor with both of them. And we don’t talk about the massive disappointment that is Endsinger EX.

Midas in and of itself was harder than Sigmascape and Eden’s Verse combined. I enjoyed God Kefka (O8S) and Shiva (E8S) as fights, but it’s laughable to say they hold a torch to Brute Justice (A8S). Rock ‘em Sock ‘em Robots (A6S) were nerfed while relevant; meanwhile, Chadarnook (O6S) was a literal striking dummy. Ifrit/Garuda and their love child boss (E6S) were harder than Chadarnook, but that’s a low bar to beat.

But tell me you never did the fights I listed when they were relevant without telling me you never did them when they were relevant.

This is 100% accurate!

Older Content was more Challenging and also more fun. It was not unfair it just needed some practice and effort for most of the players.
But sadly those hardcore Casuals don't want to put a little bit of effort in something and are requesting nerfs instead.
This Mindset will ruin the Game some day. It already started.

FFXIV should be at his Peak right now, but it is not nearly as good as it was in ARR and HW. Even SB was better.

Edit: I want to add A3S, A4S, A6S and also A8S to the list.
Those were awesome and challenging Raids and a lot of Statics broke here, but it was so good when you cleared them.
Right now, Savage is nothing.

[george357]

if you don't like normal do hard and leave the first alone for the normal players it keeps us busy

[Supersnow845]

if you don't like normal do hard and leave the first alone for the normal players it keeps us busy

That’s half the problem there isn’t enough hard content, we get what 4 savage fights every second patch and maybe an ultimate once an expansion, plus savage gets easier and easier every expansion to the point current ultimate is basically old savage

Plus there is a difference between “the third alliance raid should be like old orbonne” and “make the MSQ force you to clear savage to progress”

[Asako]

Normal fights are fine difficulty wise, not everyone is as good as the combat as we might be so just let them get through the story and be on your way.

My only gripe with the difficulty however is the item level sync on the last bosses of each expansion. These should be heavily restricted in order to give the true experience of the fight. A lot of new people don't have the luxury of playing with 8 premade and ilvl sync on and it's always a shame as when as a mentor I'm going into these fights that were so good when I done them back in the day just to see them melt and ruin the entire buildup of the story.

The last boss of HW and SB are especially bad as they were both huge spectacles that just come off as boring when you beat them in less than 2mins.

Most people beating the last boss of HW are capped at 270ilvl when storywise you would only be 150 after main scenario. That's 120ilvl extra per player. Far too much.