What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Raoabolic]

And who has a better story than Fandaniel the Broken in a mech suit killing himself to make way for the true plot of Endwalker: ruining the good will Shadowbringers had built up for the Ancients?

Ancients? I thought it was just an expansion explaining why Minfillia was the best Scion™. :^)

[Theodric]

What gets me is that I honestly cannot fathom the decision making when it comes to the likes of Elidibus. It's like Yoshi-P is terrified of people rooting or liking anyone other than the Scions and City State leaders or some fluffy very minor character of little consequence. So right as a character who has been built up over time steps into the spotlight they're immediately killed off and then largely forgotten about by the ongoing narrative. Unless it's to make disparaging remarks at their expense.

Like that utterly laughable snipe from Y'shtola regarding Elidibus in 6.1 for doing the very same thing that...Hydaelyn was doing, to one of Y'shtola's closest friends no less! Oh, but of course - it's absolutely fine for someone very close to you to be manipulated and killed unnecessarily so long as 'mOmMy' is the one doing it. These same characters will lose their minds if even the most sympathetic of antagonists so much as looks at one of their friends the wrong way, though!

[EgilTheStressedMage]

What gets me is that I honestly cannot fathom the decision making when it comes to the likes of Elidibus. It's like Yoshi-P is terrified of people rooting or liking anyone other than the Scions and City State leaders or some fluffy very minor character of little consequence. So right as a character who has been built up over time steps into the spotlight they're immediately killed off and then largely forgotten about by the ongoing narrative. Unless it's to make disparaging remarks at their expense.

Like that utterly laughable snipe from Y'shtola regarding Elidibus in 6.1 for doing the very same thing that...Hydaelyn was doing, to one of Y'shtola's closest friends no less! Oh, but of course - it's absolutely fine for someone very close to you to be manipulated and killed unnecessarily so long as 'mOmMy' is the one doing it. These same characters will lose their minds if even the most sympathetic of antagonists so much as looks at one of their friends the wrong way, though!

He simply does not and probably cannot understand what made Emet-Selch work and clearly refuses to try. At this point XIV is in it's Sticker Star phase (fourth expansion and fourth Paper Mario maybe) where the director thinks they know what players want by destroying absolutely everything that made the previous expansions work in favor of what the director personally wants, quality be damned. Spoiler alert: the game was a goddamn failure and is almost universally agreed upon. In between using a weak consumable based system for the entirety of the game and Kersti's existence, I couldn't even finish a second playthrough. Origami King and Color Splash were steps in the right direction but it's going to be take a long time for there to be a true quality Paper Mario again. Wouldn't surprise me if XIV is heading the same way.

Or maybe he just doesn't care anymore since he has his money.

[Theodric]

He simply does not and probably cannot understand what made Emet-Selch work and clearly refuses to try. At this point XIV is in it's Sticker Star phase (fourth expansion and fourth Paper Mario maybe) where the director thinks they know what players want by destroying absolutely everything that made the previous expansions work in favor of what the director personally wants, quality be damned. Spoiler alert: the game was a goddamn failure and is almost universally agreed upon. In between using a weak consumable based system for the entirety of the game and Kersti's existence, I couldn't even finish a second playthrough. Origami King and Color Splash were steps in the right direction but it's going to be take a long time for there to be a true quality Paper Mario again. Wouldn't surprise me if XIV is heading the same way.

Or maybe he just doesn't care anymore since he has his money.

I think he's too obsessed with the older Final Fantasy titles. It's not exactly a secret that although they weren't free of nuance, they're mostly straight up black and white stories of good versus evil. Things get more complex in the more 'recent' main entries since the antagonists are generally more fleshed out, charismatic and sympathetic.

I also think there's a strange unwillingness to compromise. Those of us who enjoyed the Return to Ivalice and Save the Queen content are forced to lose out because the storyline was artificially ended despite being planned to last longer. Then some here have the audacity to wonder why we're so annoyed when resources are diverted into yet more fluffy pursuits that lack meaningful stakes and consequences.

FFXIV's storytelling is becoming very effete for lack of a better word. I suppose it's telling that one of the few elements that still intrigues me is the Void and that looks to be the next thing to be hastily wrapped up and resolved.

I've been having fun in TESO at least. I'll be giving 6.2 chance - mostly for the sake of my house - but if it ends up disappointing me then I'll cut my losses. I'll only be sticking around if the development team prove that they're willing to throw a bone at those of us who like more than just their clear favourites.

[aveyond-dreams]

I have to wonder what media it is they're consuming that led them to write things the way they turned out recently. Covid pushing people in a lighter direction cannot account entirely for the sort of storytelling we've been seeing. Rather than being influenced by greater works more geared towards an adult audience like Devilman, Game of Thrones, or even recent games like FFXV and Lightning Returns, it appears the "safe" route was chosen far too frequently.

Where are they drawing inspiration from when it comes to the Void? Why is it being pushed onto us so hard early on rather than letting it come into its own relevance later on over the course of the Season 2 plot? I do not want to be over and done with it so soon, nor do I want to be teased by it and get interested in it only for 7.0 to "subvert my expectations" by taking us somewhere completely different. Why couldn't we have actually gone back to being adventurers with a new party? Why are we still keeping characters around whose arcs have long since been over?

Friday brings with it the 6.2 trailer with the Live Letter, and hopefully some kind of clue as to what we should expect. Given the photos up on the patch site I can make a reasonable prediction as to what we might see in the MSQ, though none of it is particularly exciting nor do I expect that a meaningful dialogue will occur between us and Zenos's voidsent.

As I mentioned earlier in another thread, I think that they need to take the time to consider how things feel from the player's perspective rather than a developmental one where in this case, they know what lies ahead and while they may feel assured in the current direction, there are a lot of players who don't. We want to be able to trust in them and gain some confidence back, but what we've been seeing is getting in the way of that. We'd rather not lose out on FFXIV but if things don't get better despite our attempts to call attention to the issues with this game, many people stand to leave for other games though ideally, they want to be able to play the best version of FFXIV that they don't feel they're getting.

Re-asses, reconsider, and restore our trust.

[Striker44]

Huehuehue, how interesting....

Suddenly, it's YOU who've "never said that" and cannot verify evidence or provide proof! Whatever shall you do, Striker-kun?

Seriously, though. It's hardly fair for you to say that now, not when you consistently accuse others of making wild insinuations like being the "Ultimate Arbiters of Good and Bad, Right and Wrong". Where'dya get that phrase anyway, Mr. Animu Lord?

Hehe, I made that phrase up, but I kinda like it, and it seems to stick in people's minds, so...I'll go with it

And what's "interesting" about a fact? Seriously, go find a post of mine where I claimed someone's opinion didn't matter simply because it was a minority opinion. I notice you didn't yet. I wonder why that is?

The phrase of mine your quoting doesn't do that. It just points out people like to act as if personal opinions are facts. I'll say it again - there's a difference between something "not mattering" and someone getting themselves frustrated more and more because they refuse to consider that their opinion might be widely opposed, and then getting exasperated when the dev team doesn't change their approach to suit them.

[Striker44]

Random note:

...the true plot of Endwalker: ruining the good will Shadowbringers had built up for the Ancients?

Like that utterly laughable snipe from Y'shtola regarding Elidibus in 6.1 for doing the very same thing that...

These are just from the last single page. They're opinions masquerading as facts by people declaring themselves those very arbiters of right and wrong

The worst of it is I think I might not have been as mad at Endwalker if SE had been honest about this...They told me we were going to get the big dramatic finale of the Hydaelyn and Zodiark arc. The big deal that had been going on more or less in the background, after years of build-up. They, quite literally, said they would give me the moon.

They were honest about that and gave you all of those things. Read the rest of that post to see how it ultimately devolves into the usual "well, actually they just wrote a different story than the one I wanted them to write...the nerve of those authors...they must be bad."

while they may feel assured in the current direction, there are a lot of players who don't. We want to be able to trust in them and gain some confidence back, but what we've been seeing is getting in the way of that. We'd rather not lose out on FFXIV but if things don't get better despite our attempts to call attention to the issues with this game, many people stand to leave for other games though ideally, they want to be able to play the best version of FFXIV that they don't feel they're getting.

And this one takes the cake, from one of our two most prominent you-know-what's. Pretending that this niche opinion in this echo chamber is somehow the general feeling, which is only going to lead to more frustration when it doesn't lead anywhere since it isn't the general feeling. There are hundreds of thousands of active players in this game. There will technically be "a lot" of anything on any topic for pure numbers. But as a portion of the playerbase? Declaring things "issues" just because you personally think they are doesn't make them so. Most people still completely trust the dev team and have a lot of confidence in them. EW knocked it out of the park for them. They already feeling their playing if not the "best" version of FFXIV, then at least a much, much, much more than satisfactory one. Risking alienating all of those people just to please a minuscule minority that creates their own echo chamber would be a horrible business decision.

[Lauront]

Random suggestion: You should consult this post rather than venting at us to remind us our opinions are our opinions and throwing out claims about majorities, minuscule minorities and niches and whatnot. There's an awful lot in your post you're averring but, contrary to your own suggested best practice, you do not preface your words as opinions or in the language you suggested people use in the past. Guess you're exempt from the Striker bible on how to forum post.

[Theodric]

you-know-what's.

Huh? No, actually, I don't know what you're referring to and I very much doubt that the majority do either.

[Reap00]

Random note:





These are just from the last single page. They're opinions masquerading as facts by people declaring themselves those very arbiters of right and wrong



They were honest about that and gave you all of those things. Read the rest of that post to see how it ultimately devolves into the usual "well, actually they just wrote a different story than the one I wanted them to write...the nerve of those authors...they must be bad."



And this one takes the cake, from one of our two most prominent you-know-what's. Pretending that this niche opinion in this echo chamber is somehow the general feeling, which is only going to lead to more frustration when it doesn't lead anywhere since it isn't the general feeling. There are hundreds of thousands of active players in this game. There will technically be "a lot" of anything on any topic for pure numbers. But as a portion of the playerbase? Declaring things "issues" just because you personally think they are doesn't make them so. Most people still completely trust the dev team and have a lot of confidence in them. EW knocked it out of the park for them. They already feeling their playing if not the "best" version of FFXIV, then at least a much, much, much more than satisfactory one. Risking alienating all of those people just to please a minuscule minority that creates their own echo chamber would be a horrible business decision.

Don't try to reason with these people man. They just spent over 600 pages on a forum trying to jam their opinion down the throat of others. They don't realize it won't change a thing or maybe they do and that really bothers them. Endwalker was absolutely amazing. I loved every single minute of it. I am in the majority. Most people I have talked to LOVED the expansion story/finale. I have been playing since 1.0. The opinions of others will never change that regardless of how adamant they are or how hard they choose to beat a dead horse.