Why are Ranged DPS so unfun to play?

[Supersnow845]

Wait, what is this long discussion about?
Not everyone has to like every job/role.

I know enough people who like to play phys ranged.
There is no phys range shortage in any content.

The 1 each roles buff is just really important in week one savage, ultimates and when a LB is needed.

I would say that phys ranged are in a good spot right now.
You have different playstyles for them and everyone is viable in any content.

Physical ranged is basically being carried by its contribution to the 5% role buff, the physical range have a massive damage tax that never actually gets utilised because it’s way too easy to get uptime as a melee, MCH is the selfish class yet does the worst damage of the 3, BRD lost half its identity when the removed interaction with DOT’s and DNC is just…..fine

If there wasn’t a role bonus then double caster double melee or double melee BLM caster would become the meta comp, phys ranged just bring nothing to the table right now

[Mortex]

Physical ranged is basically being carried by its contribution to the 5% role buff, the physical range have a massive damage tax that never actually gets utilised because it’s way too easy to get uptime as a melee, MCH is the selfish class yet does the worst damage of the 3, BRD lost half its identity when the removed interaction with DOT’s and DNC is just…..fine

If there wasn’t a role bonus then double caster double melee or double melee BLM caster would become the meta comp, phys ranged just bring nothing to the table right now

At least dancer buffs the actual good dps in the group. One of the only good contributing stuff you do next to samba and technical finish lasting 20 second and can be pre danced.

[CKNovel]

The 1 each roles buff is just really important in week one savage, ultimates and when a LB is needed.

I would say that phys ranged are in a good spot right now.
You have different playstyles for them and everyone is viable in any content.

They're in the worst spot. To be fair, they're in the "Bad but just good enough so that there is at least 1 ranged in each group"

Damage wise, they're the lowest and since 2 of them are rDPS based and low personal damage, they have terrible synergy between each other.
MCH is especially in a terrible spot since it only has 2 natural aoes, being Ricochet and Chain Saw.
Ricochet needs the targets to be stacked and Chain Saw has a too severe fall off. DNC&BRD have the same fall off but they also have multiple line aoes.

MCH being gauge based also hurts the job. DSR can easily have 1 full minute of downtime for a lot of mechanics. During this minute, MCH doesn't build gauges and loose 2-3 Drills and potentially 1 Air Anchor.
BRD cannot play its song during downtime, which, correct me if I'm wrong, hurts Radiant Finale.

Mobility wise, we're in a "meta" where mobility is overrated, complex mechanic don't have uptime for anyone and bosses hitbox are adjusted for melee uptime. We're also in an expansion where SMN has a ranged mobility and BLM, with the right level of skill, can be more mobile than MCH.

DNC has 3 charges of En Avant but will mostly sit at 3 charges.

Utility wise, they're near bottom. All MCH brings is Tactician which is also brought by BRD and DNC and it also doesn't stack, making the ranged role even more anti-synergy.

To compare all DPS:
MCH has nothing, not even a personal shield.
BRD has Nature's Minne (a good skill paired with SCH) and Warden's Paen which has seen a use in TEA and nothing else since.
DNC shines a little bit more with Cure Waltz and Improvisation

SMN has a personal shield, a party hot (though unreliable), Rekindle and Resurrection.
RDM has magick barrier and res.
BLM has a personal barrier.
And they all share Addle.

All melees have at least a personal mitigation except DRG and they all share Feint/Bloodbath.

So much for "Support DPS". If it wasn't for that 1% bonus, a lot of PF would be closed to physical ranged.
Many ultimate groups would simply not have any ranged.

[Curisu]

I'm aware of that, but I still don't see the problem.
Maybe MCH has a lower playerbase but there are enough people who like to play BRD or DNC.

And when I look into the static finder discord, then they are looking for all kind of jobs.

It would be a problem when no one wants to play them or group's start to exclude these jobs in PF.

But no one is doing that, therefore the Phys ranged are in a okayish spot.


If you personally think that phys ranged is not in a good spot, then don't take them with you.

[Supersnow845]

I'm aware of that, but I still don't see the problem.
Maybe MCH has a lower playerbase but there are enough people who like to play BRD or DNC.

And when I look into the static finder discord, then they are looking for all kind of jobs.

It would be a problem when no one wants to play them or group's start to exclude these jobs in PF.

But no one is doing that, therefore the Phys ranged are in a okayish spot.


If you personally think that phys ranged is not in a good spot, then don't take them with you.

That’s our entire point they are still taken because of the role bonus not because people actually want what the phys ranged offer

If a time is being held up by PF requirement then it’s a flawed role, it’s why the healers still exist despite being absolute hot garbage

[Curisu]

Well, people want something that the phys ranged offers.
The role bonus. For the same reason you take caster or melees with you.

If it would not be so important, then they might go with double/double roles.

And I don't know a single phys ranged player who felt forced to play that role.
The gameplay of the phys ranged are good enough that people want to play them and that there is no shortage of these players.

If we talk about raw DMG output then they might need a small buff, at least the MCH needs that.
But DMG is not really that important.
Like, i play PLD and don't complain about being the lowest DMG tank because I do not get excluded anywhere and I really enjoy the gameplay of that class.

[Supersnow845]

Well, people want something that the phys ranged offers.
The role bonus. For the same reason you take caster or melees with you.

If it would not be so important, then they might go with double/double roles.

And I don't know a single phys ranged player who felt forced to play that role.
The gameplay of the phys ranged are good enough that people want to play them and that there is no shortage of these players.

If we talk about raw DMG output then they might need a small buff, at least the MCH needs that.
But DMG is not really that important.
Like, i play PLD and don't complain about being the lowest DMG tank because I do not get excluded anywhere and I really enjoy the gameplay of that class.

Well WAR has the lowest damage of the tanks and damage is literally king in this game, nothing matters relative to one’s DPS contribution so since the phys ranged really don’t compensate for their lower damage they are in a bad spot, like I said you can’t hold a role up because of the role bonus

[Carin-Eri]

Machinist is probably the one exception but even that's kind of hit or miss.

but Bard and Dancer feel so uninspired, which is kind of ironic given their jobs.

How could they improve the overall gameplay of either to make them more interesting to use and play?

That's really very subjective. I love Bard - played the entire MSQ as one. Swapped to RDM recently, but do - more often than not - swap back to Bard.

And whilst am not great at it, I do nonetheless really enjoy it and really do get an odd sense of satisfaction when Blast Arrow procs and hits for high (looking) numbers.

[Curisu]

Well WAR has the lowest damage of the tanks and damage is literally king in this game, nothing matters relative to one’s DPS contribution so since the phys ranged really don’t compensate for their lower damage they are in a bad spot, like I said you can’t hold a role up because of the role bonus

Ohh, so it's just about DMG.
I have to tell you something important.
Dmg does not matter that much.

Fights are created with the phys ranged DPS in mind.
Any standard composition can clear every fight.

Especially after the first week when you have one more higher gear piece.

And for the new Ultimate... Well i guess the melees need to nerfed as they appear to be far stronger then the phy and magic ranged.
While caster and ranges are on paar with each other, (MCH needs a small buff), you have 4 melees above the BLM DMG.
Only Reaper seems to be fine because he is in-between the caster/ranges.

[Supersnow845]

Ohh, so it's just about DMG.
I have to tell you something important.
Dmg does not matter that much.

Fights are created with the phys ranged DPS in mind.
Any standard composition can clear every fight.

Especially after the first week when you have one more higher gear piece.

And for the new Ultimate... Well i guess the melees need to nerfed as they appear to be far stronger then the phy and magic ranged.
While caster and ranges are on paar with each other, (MCH needs a small buff), you have 4 melees above the BLM DMG.
Only Reaper seems to be fine because he is in-between the caster/ranges.

If damage doesn’t matter much then I’d absolutely love to see what you think actually does matter a lot (it certainly can’t be fun because square ripped that out in about 5.0)

And no fights aren’t created with physical ranged in mind, they are created in general roughly with 2 melee 2 ranged, but the ranged can easily be both be casters

DSR is not a good representation of the balance of the jobs because it heavily biases jobs that can pool their burst but don’t have to build it, it’s why DRG and DNC over perform and RPR and MCH underperform, jobs are mostly balanced around 100% uptime savage encounters and they 100% don’t need physical ranged other than the 5% role bonus, if that wasn’t there party comp would 100% be locked to 2 melees, a third melee or BLM and a caster, casters bring actual useful utility