On Azem's role in the story

[Kesey]

That's actually what I mean by shooting for a third answer. If you go for 'Azem was off fighting The Real Threat', then it paints both the Zodiark and Hydaelyn sides as wrong because they were fighting over something smaller. It's the same issue as if we learned Azem was pursuing a perfect medium option that wouldn't have required Zodiark sacrifices or the Sundering.

It's a permutation of something that I find plagues a lot of games with multiple endings; the existence of a 'true ending' (either in terms of 'everyone's happy' or 'this one has the real final boss') demotes all other options to 'false endings'. Which sucks if you think one of those false endings was the one with the right ideas.

The scale of Hydaelyn and Zodiark may be smaller in scale in the future, but I think it was pretty clear in the story that if the Zodiark side had their way the Final Days would still come to pass in the future, but if Hydaelyn side wins, then there is a permanent solution where Meteion can't have the Final Days.

The one ending is the true ending. There are no other possible false endings. You either stop the Final Days or unsub.

[Kesey]

(much like Venat did when keeping quiet about the End of Days)

In Anamnesis Anyder, the recording does show that Venat and company reached out to "the defector" which we know was Azem and speak in past tense about telling the Convocation but were ignored.

Doesn't really sound like a big secret on Venat's part. Venat's only big secret is she made the ultimate sacrifice for all of the living souls of the star.

[KageTokage]

In Anamnesis Anyder, the recording does show that Venat and company reached out to "the defector" which we know was Azem and speak in past tense about telling the Convocation but were ignored.

I was under the impression that was in reference to the Convocation going through with the third sacrifice, because Elidibus spells it out pretty plainly that they didn't know what caused the Final Days.

I'm really hoping they'll elaborate on exactly what she and her faction were trying to accomplish in the period before and after the Final Days as well as how much she told them about her grand plan, because the whole situation is just made...strange by the fact that we now know that she never seemed to have any intention of not causing the Sundering due to believing the Ancients were inherently incapable of stopping Meteion in their current state.

[EaraGrace]

In Anamnesis Anyder, the recording does show that Venat and company reached out to "the defector" which we know was Azem and speak in past tense about telling the Convocation but were ignored.

Doesn't really sound like a big secret on Venat's part. Venat's only big secret is she made the ultimate sacrifice for all of the living souls of the star.

They refer to reaching out as “overtures” which, based in a very cursory glance at definitions means

a: an initiative toward agreement or action
b: something introductory

So whatever was discussed was at the beginning stage and likely not substantive yet. Given this is Venats handpicked successor, and the only person we know to defect over Zodiarks summoning, the fact that they are still bothering with a slow introduction actually indicates the inverse of what you said. If anyone was a likely candidate to join her faction, it’s them, yet Hydaelyns summoners resorted to introductions first. Why do that if yiu weren’t be careful?

[Cleretic]

I was under the impression that was in reference to the Convocation going through with the third sacrifice, because Elidibus spells it out pretty plainly that they didn't know what caused the Final Days.

I'm really hoping they'll elaborate on exactly what she and her faction were trying to accomplish in the period before and after the Final Days as well as how much she told them about her grand plan, because the whole situation is just made...strange by the fact that we now know that she never seemed to have any intention of not causing the Sundering due to believing the Ancients were inherently incapable of stopping Meteion in their current state.

I always got the feeling that she did want to find other methods than the Sundering, but the world around her kept stubbornly sailing in such a way that she realized that it was the only one available. We see her genuinely try to convince the crowd about to perform the second sacrifice to move on, and only seemed to steel herself once she realized her words fell on deaf ears; would she have done that if she didn't think these things were avoidable? Similarly, the Anamnesis crew definitely seemed to be aware of the Sundering as what was gradually proving to be their only option, but they were still trying to find other methods.

Which makes sense to me; remember there were still a lot of 'if's about Plan Hydaelyn, and not only were we not the best narrator, it seems Venat didn't know she actually pulled off the time loop until we came down and told her (which makes sense; if all we told her was the MSQ, she didn't hear about Alexander to learn time loops are possible). If you had a plan that only had a chance of working, but going through with it would undeniably cost everything you knew, you'd try to find alternatives up until the last moment.

[Rulakir]

I was under the impression that was in reference to the Convocation going through with the third sacrifice

Same.

I still haven't seen anything to suggest unequivocally that Hydaelyn's summoners knew about the sundering (at least beyond Zodiark) either. I certainly wouldn't say it's 'definite' based on the ambiguous dialog in Anyder and Omega.

Also worth noting that in JP and DE it's stated that Azem has "sworn themselves to neutrality" and will not respond to their "invitation".

[Kesey]

They refer to reaching out as “overtures” which, based in a very cursory glance at definitions means



So whatever was discussed was at the beginning stage and likely not substantive yet. Given this is Venats handpicked successor, and the only person we know to defect over Zodiarks summoning, the fact that they are still bothering with a slow introduction actually indicates the inverse of what you said. If anyone was a likely candidate to join her faction, it’s them, yet Hydaelyns summoners resorted to introductions first. Why do that if yiu weren’t be careful?

I see what you're trying to say. But the connotation of the word "overtures" could have meant they tried to start a debate about it with Convocation and they were shut down (most likely because they were tempered to Zodiark and wouldn't change their minds). Much like how asking someone out is a romantic "overature".

[Lurina]

e: Wrong thread.

[Tehmon]

The emotional weight of being the sundered Azem is kind of lost on me because nobody ever acknowledges that we are the sundered Azem. We reach the height of that revelation at the end of 5.0 with Emet's denial, but whenever Azem and our relation to them is brought up again after that, it feels like a dud, like '' what am I supposed to do with this information and why should I feel any type of way, nobody else seems to feel any type of way about it either. ''

I was expecting the Elpis section to at least address our existence, have Emet go on another round of denial that we are the remnants of his friends shattered existence or something, but beyond Hythlodaeus' '' I don't understand how you are so alike, yet so different '' it's never really brought up. So neither am I convinced that I should have this emotional attachment to my bygone friends of the ancient era, when the whole Azem thing is just a shallow as f plot device.

Not that I don't enjoy imagining what my interpretation of Azem would be for my WoL, but that is as far as it goes.

[SannaR]

The emotional weight of being the sundered Azem is kind of lost on me because nobody ever acknowledges that we are the sundered Azem. We reach the height of that revelation at the end of 5.0 with Emet's denial, but whenever Azem and our relation to them is brought up again after that, it feels like a dud, like '' what am I supposed to do with this information and why should I feel any type of way, nobody else seems to feel any type of way about it either. ''

I was expecting the Elpis section to at least address our existence, have Emet go on another round of denial that we are the remnants of his friends shattered existence or something, but beyond Hythlodaeus' '' I don't understand how you are so alike, yet so different '' it's never really brought up. So neither am I convinced that I should have this emotional attachment to my bygone friends of the ancient era, when the whole Azem thing is just a shallow as f plot device.

Not that I don't enjoy imagining what my interpretation of Azem would be for my WoL, but that is as far as it goes.

I don't know. I think there was just enough during Elpis. Hades spots us. Quickly notices the soul color and then pretends to not have done so and would have continued it for a lot longer if Hythlodaeus hadn't stopped at the door and called him out on it. Hythlodaeus then wonders if it's something Azem did for the luls and Hades corrects them. He then continues to not trust you. Similar soul color, and exact looks be damned. Hades might have had more trouble about the Wol being a sundered version if Azem if he handled what he becomes better. Remember the man shows more in his facial expressions and mannerisms than what he verbalizes. I think Hythlodaeus's problem is that we have a different personality than Azem. That and before knowing why our aether is thin he has the mind set of your average Ancient dealing with a familiar.