We Need to Start Expecting Mid-Level Sprouts to Play Better

[AmiableApkallu]

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My own threshold for, "Is this worth commenting on unsolicited?" is something like, "Would the party actually notice a difference if they followed my advice?" Anything that prevents a wipe or prevents people from dying often falls in this category: mechanics, not doing enough to counter unavoidable damage, and so on. Anything less gets a bit touchier because it's less obvious that something could have gone better. "I'm still standing. We cleared. What's the problem?" To some extent, it's a fair point; the content didn't demand anything more of the party.

To implement harder content, I suspect we'd first need job quests or similar that attempt to walk players through their kits in more depth. I can imagine going back to the original quest givers, talking to them, and when you ask them, "What is a <insert job>?", you get not only the lore background but an overview of the job's design philosophy and a chance to test your understanding in a repeatable solo duty. (Whether the players agree with the design is a topic for another thread…)

[Padudu]

My own threshold for, "Is this worth commenting on unsolicited?" is something like, "Would the party actually notice a difference if they followed my advice?" Anything that prevents a wipe or prevents people from dying often falls in this category: mechanics, not doing enough to counter unavoidable damage, and so on. Anything less gets a bit touchier because it's less obvious that something could have gone better. "I'm still standing. We cleared. What's the problem?" To some extent, it's a fair point; the content didn't demand anything more of the party.

To implement harder content, I suspect we'd first need job quests or similar that attempt to walk players through their kits in more depth. I can imagine going back to the original quest givers, talking to them, and when you ask them, "What is a <insert job>?", you get not only the lore background but an overview of the job's design philosophy and a chance to test your understanding in a repeatable solo duty. (Whether the players agree with the design is a topic for another thread…)

Yeah -- I think that's actually a solid threshold to have. I know on the OF we tend to be 'grr' towards suboptimal/bad players, but I wonder the amount of people who actually speak up to help them. I probably would guess most people would just rather take the 30 and dip -- which is fair. They can do what they want, their money their sub lol. There are a few people out there who get huffy over runs taking longer than usual despite still clearing or do get picky over dmg/rotational mistakes -- I think the best example of this is how the TalesFromDF subreddit can get at times over regular content. While the complaints/vents there are rather valid, you do get the select few who post damage logs in a dungeon run and pointing out a particular person's low dps for one reason or another, sometimes with no context. I find that a bit more.. distasteful or wrong? Apologies, I don't know the exact word that would fit there lol. It's one thing when it's hard content like extremes or savage, it's a bit different when it's normal dungeons for me. Idk, that subreddit can be a bit tunnelvision-y/hounding at times since really - that's probably a good amount of people out there who play XIV.

But I digress and agree with your line of thinking - it's better to speak up when it's more beneficial. Explaining mechanics, preventing wipes, and people missing vital skills in their rotations that can cause a bit of trouble are definitely times you're in the right to speak on, IMO. I find it less so when we are clearing the content even if it's at a slower pace, or if we wipe once and clear regardless. Sometimes people really do just make mistakes, forget to toggle on their stance, ect and that's ok.

I think my bar for intervening on bad players is a bit low lol. I just go with the flow unless we are actively wiping. I want people to have a good time, so unless they are really performing bad or leeching, I don't really care. I have some friends who only play casual content and while they're far from optimal and make plenty of mistakes, I'd rather let them have their fun when they run content with me and just enjoy the story. In the end it doesn't really matter, they are not raiders and will not likely touch end game content, so it's easier to ignore quirky gameplay and get through a dungeon run.

I think it's important to remember that the game as it stands caters to very casual players. There are people who do want to improve that just need a nudge in the right direction, and there are just people who are, well, bad at video games. For normal content, it's all ok. In my opinion - it's not OK to shove people onto trusts if they don't want to use trusts. Some people who are bad players still want a mmo experience with the human interaction included - they should get to have that even if they aren't the best player. Is it selfish behavior? Maybe, but you're also entitled to dip if the run isn't to your liking, you're also entitled to say something if you want to give them advice.

Also, to your harder content concept, I actually would like a in-depth tutorial/questline that goes into their skills, how it works, ect. Sometimes I think people actually just need a visual guide rather than reading tooltips. As a Yu-Gi-Oh player, I very well understand the concept of not reading what the hell any of the cards do haha. People only remember it by their effects --- and while we do have plenty of player made guides, it would help if SE gave sprouts a nudge in the right direction I think!

(I apologize for these incredibly long posts..)