We Need to Start Expecting Mid-Level Sprouts to Play Better

[Merrigan]

This isn't your game, and you don't get to set arbitrary goals for anyone, and this thread should have ended on page 1.

It is not the game of individuals, but of a community. And as it belongs to no one as such (... Except SE, but you get the point), it is necessary to find compromises.

The goal in dungeons should be "do your best to make this particular group work". If a healer kindly asks you to speed up the pace as a tank, do so; in exchange, don't pull in the tank's place if it makes him uncomfortable. You can see that you are not very useful in dps because you are accompanied by level 90 players who dismantle everything? Take the initiative to take the keys to pick up and go open doors, or switch on the elements needed for certain mechanics.

A lot of people are toxic not by insulting; not by giving advice in a dry way; but because it is visible through their gameplay that they are playing as if they are with bots. And yes, this reproach also concerns those who claim to "go at their own pace" without any consideration for others. And this is true whether their pace is particularly slow or particularly fast.

[Deceptus]

It is not the game of individuals, but of a community. And as it belongs to no one as such (... Except SE, but you get the point), it is necessary to find compromises.

The goal in dungeons should be "do your best to make this particular group work". If a healer kindly asks you to speed up the pace as a tank, do so; in exchange, don't pull in the tank's place if it makes him uncomfortable. You can see that you are not very useful in dps because you are accompanied by level 90 players who dismantle everything? Take the initiative to take the keys to pick up and go open doors, or switch on the elements needed for certain mechanics.

A lot of people are toxic not by insulting; not by giving advice in a dry way; but because it is visible through their gameplay that they are playing as if they are with bots. And yes, this reproach also concerns those who claim to "go at their own pace" without any consideration for others. And this is true whether their pace is particularly slow or particularly fast.

Basically:

If you don't want to be a team player in a team based game, go play with Trusts.

But a lot people don't do that because trusts take longer. Trusts take longer because the trusts are programmed to not do as much damage as players. It's the exact same way as people who aren't playing at a moderate level. If you can't even do as much damage as a Trust NPC, something that is SPECIFICALLY programmed to do lower dps, that's a YOU problem (general "you", not you specifically Merrigan) that you need to work on.

And yes, I've had runs in 80+ content take longer than a Trust would have taken.

It's a bit harsh to say that, but it's reality, something a lot of players need a healthy dose of.

[Boblawblah]

Basically:

If you don't want to be a team player in a team based game, go play with Trusts.

But a lot people don't do that because trusts take longer. Trusts take longer because the trusts are programmed to not do as much damage as players. It's the exact same way as people who aren't playing at a moderate level. If you can't even do as much damage as a Trust NPC, something that is SPECIFICALLY programmed to do lower dps, that's a YOU problem (general "you", not you specifically Merrigan) that you need to work on.

And yes, I've had runs in 80+ content take longer than a Trust would have taken.

It's a bit harsh to say that, but it's reality, something a lot of players need a healthy dose of.

I have to wonder, is it really the player who isn't doing enough (to you) dps's problem? The game doesn't punish them, in fact, it defends them against people being toxic towards them. So whos problem is it exactly? What "reality" is it really?

[Merrigan]

I have to wonder, is it really the player who isn't doing enough (to you) dps's problem? The game doesn't punish them, in fact, it defends them against people being toxic towards them. So whos problem is it exactly? What "reality" is it really?

Sorry for the double post, but two little things:

1. Yes, regarding the dps it's definitely the player's fault. The game doesn't help (a player before me has explained very well why, so I won't go back to that); but some people make absolutely no effort at all to the point of not being able to string together a single combo.

2. Please stop with this fixed idea about the evilness of the devs, who constantly defend the poor little newbies. The rules are clear on this: advice is allowed. Mockery is not. In other words, you have every right to say the following:

"Monk, if I may give you an advice, your rotation seems off. You should try to ..."

But not :


"Hey, you little shit, get off your ass".

[Bukachu]

I have to wonder, is it really the player who isn't doing enough (to you) dps's problem? The game doesn't punish them, in fact, it defends them against people being toxic towards them. So whos problem is it exactly? What "reality" is it really?

I mean there's a difference between toxicity and telling someone they're bad, and ideally how to improve.

[Misplaced_Marbles]

I mean there's a difference between toxicity and telling someone they're bad, and ideally how to improve.

To the people who do this kind of thing, the difference doesn't exist. As soon as you draw attention to their deficiencies/laziness, you're being "toxic". Then they expect you to shut up as soon as they use that word and are indignant beyond belief if you don't.

[Rilifane]

Basically:

If you don't want to be a team player in a team based game, go play with Trusts.

Agreed.
It's simply common sense that whenever you do an activity that is either team-based or takes place in a confined space where everyone's action are bound to affect others you try to not negatively affect others to the best of your abilities.
And "to the best of your abilities" doesn't mean pull off pro gamer moves - but try your best to be a teamplayer and make it a smooth experience for everyone by keeping it mind that everything one player fails to do another has to make up for.
Adjust the pull speed to the party, don't netflix and pick your nose if no healing is needed, use aoes in big pulls, use your mitigation (doesn't have to be used well, just use it), don't stand in the bad and stay in heal range of the healer, use cooldowns as often as you remember them etc.
No reason to make this out as some elitist bs and go around lamenting "b-b--but my FUN" - you're not the only player in a party, everyone's fun and smooth experience is equally important. This is at the same time nobody's and everybody's game.

You don't go on a open for all football field and start randomly run in someone else's way - there is no explicit rule against doing so but it obviously affects them negatively. If you play as a goalkeeper you don't randomly stand next to your goal because nobody told you that a goalkeeper should... you know... guard the goal a little bit?
You don't go ice skating in a rink open to public and stand around in the busiest parts and start a nice group chat even if there is no explicit rule against doing so. Nor do you practice fancy things in the middle of the most-used path, you go into centre where you're least likely to disturb anyone.
You don't go into a supermarket and tak care of that really long phone call in the middle of the only small path to another aisle because there are no rules against it and maybe it's your first time in a supermarket and you're also drunk and didn't sleep.
Not everything should be spelled out by the law for you, some things should simply be a matter of common sense.

But if you really don't want to be a teamplayer, there are trusts. One of the reasons they keep expanding on that feature is that people who'd rather play it like a single-player game can. And if your mindset is "I play what I want and I don't care about the rest of the party" then this is for you.
And if you don't like trusts because they're slower then congratulations, now you understand why people don't like it if others can't show some basic decency and respect towards other people's time by trying to be a teamplayer. Don't be a trust.

[Merrigan]

Basically:

If you don't want to be a team player in a team based game, go play with Trusts.

But a lot people don't do that because trusts take longer. Trusts take longer because the trusts are programmed to not do as much damage as players. It's the exact same way as people who aren't playing at a moderate level. If you can't even do as much damage as a Trust NPC, something that is SPECIFICALLY programmed to do lower dps, that's a YOU problem (general "you", not you specifically Merrigan) that you need to work on.

And yes, I've had runs in 80+ content take longer than a Trust would have taken.

It's a bit harsh to say that, but it's reality, something a lot of players need a healthy dose of.

It's not harsh, though?

Anyway, to add another thing: there is another option than the "trust" system, that is to play with your FC. With people who agree with your way of playing.

As soon as you enter a team, you implicitly accept its rules. And among these, the rules that are common sense, i.e. to make efforts concerning your teammates. Whether it's in terms of dps, general rhythm or whatever. Which leads me to answer this:

I dont understand the self importance one must have to queue up for a roulette with 3 or more random other people, with any expectation what-so-ever.

Look in the mirror, will you? What is arrogant is not having expectations; it is thinking that you can do absolutely anything you want when you fall in a random team with three strangers.

[Banriikku]

The problem of your argumemt is, it works in only in a space without the need of any skill what's so ever. This is for an MMO not true. The baseline is simple the mechs the dev's put into the instance you queue for. They expect you to be able to clear normal content and this is the baseline. And AGAIN calling names or saying "you are this or that " is not an argument at all. It is an personal attack.