We Need to Start Expecting Mid-Level Sprouts to Play Better

[RyuDragnier]

The bare minimum I expect from the roles:

Tanks: Use cooldowns and just position enemies so they won't hit allies.
Healers: Heal the party when needed and do damage when it's not needed.
DPS: Do decent damage.

That's all I expect, and the amount of times that isn't even met is fairly high. That btw, is different from the bare minimum I expect from just playing the game. The bare minimum there being don't double stack stack markers, don't run away from the group with them, keep the flare/aoe markers from other people, and actively TRY to dodge AoEs.

[TaleraRistain]

You have such a warped view of what “support” means, support means your main contribution to the party is not damage, it’s not “play your role and someone else’s who doesn’t want to properly contribute to the group”

If they don’t want to play their job at an absolute baseline level they can go play with trusts, not make me play their role for them

I don't have a warped view. I have a realistic view. I already said before, this isn't some epidemic in the game. Most players do fine. Tanks mitigate, healers heal, dps do decent dps. Sometimes we get a more pear-shaped party and we have to step up. It doesn't happen often. Sometimes we're thanked. Sometimes we're not. It's rare. So we already do expect mid-level sprouts to play well and they do already play well and this entire thread is pointless posturing and gatekeeping by someone who just isn't fit for doing what's necessary those random times a PUG situation may call for it.

[Supersnow845]

I don't have a warped view. I have a realistic view. I already said before, this isn't some epidemic in the game. Most players do fine. Tanks mitigate, healers heal, dps do decent dps. Sometimes we get a more pear-shaped party and we have to step up. It doesn't happen often. Sometimes we're thanked. Sometimes we're not. It's rare. So we already do expect mid-level sprouts to play well and they do already play well and this entire thread is pointless posturing and gatekeeping by someone who just isn't fit for doing what's necessary those random times a PUG situation may call for it.

You do have a warped view because

1) you described support as basically amounting to “do the work of two people to make up for a slacker”
2) this type of situation is more common than it’s not, cure 1 spammers, DPS who don’t AOE, YPYT, bad players are more common than players who play at any sort of competent Level and just saying “oh it’s fine just do their work for them” every time you encounter them is bad, they should actually learn to play the game

[DaddyHrothgar]

Why is it such a huge controversy to want your tanks to be the least bit competent in endgame dungeons? We're not asking you to be gods at the game. We just want you to freaking use Rampart once in a while, and not stand in the AOEs, and expect the healer will babysit you the entire way.

That's all.

If that's asking way too much of you as a tank, then you really shouldn't be playing tank.

[Duskane]

too many variables to consider
job boost,higher level job unlocks like SGE and GNB,disabilities or just unawareness,
can't really have any expectations when the game doesn't set any in the first place, I've seen shire weapons in ShB content,I've had 3 warriors this week all have berserk in 80-90 content,have stood around for 5 minutes in e7n waiting for one of the tanks to turn on their stance so we could start and both just did nothing waiting for other to turn stance on.

in a multiplayer game as big as XIV its just how it is.

[Striker44]

Why is it such a huge controversy to want your tanks to be the least bit competent in endgame dungeons? We're not asking you to be gods at the game. We just want you to freaking use Rampart once in a while, and not stand in the AOEs, and expect the healer will babysit you the entire way.

That's all.

If that's asking way too much of you as a tank, then you really shouldn't be playing tank.

The issue isn't that. The issue is acting as if it's somehow this epidemic in the game (hint: as numerous posters have attested to, it's actually extremely rare to find a tank at a high level completely unaware how to play), and then going completely nuclear and heading off on an endless rant because you encountered someone somewhere in a game who didn't reach your expectation.

[game_enjoyer]

You do have a warped view because

1) you described support as basically amounting to “do the work of two people to make up for a slacker”
2) this type of situation is more common than it’s not, cure 1 spammers, DPS who don’t AOE, YPYT, bad players are more common than players who play at any sort of competent Level and just saying “oh it’s fine just do their work for them” every time you encounter them is bad, they should actually learn to play the game

no, if someone not doing the mechanics is permissible than someone doing the mechanics is not "extra work" and honestly i'm beginning to believe the ytyp people don't exist because it's been 5 years and i haven't seen one.

[Striker44]

By the time that someone has hit mid-level they should be aware of how mitigation works in FFXIV so the excuse of "I thought I should be saving it for the boss' really isn't valid, as pointed out by OP, if someone uses a skip, the logical and considerate thing to do is take a new job into a lower level dungeon, and then a mid-level dungeon. Unfortunately someone with a skip might still get a surprise (e.g. Holminster) but that would help.

Expecting a tank to know how their mitigation works and when to use them really isn't unreasonable, no one is even asking for a perfect use- just some recognition that they can hit those buttons at all when they are likely most needed.

I'd disagree with sentiment. Unless you're wall-to-wall pulling at those early-to-mid levels (which if you're just learning how to tank, you're probably not), I can easily see someone noticing no need whatsoever to use their main mitigation abilities on single trash packs. The change happens precisely when you both: A.) Get to higher levels, and B.) Wall-to-wall pull. For developing tanks, that may not be happening period until they're at a higher level, and all it usually takes is an actual polite recommendation to go ahead and use some of those mitigation tools on the trash, because when we pull multiple packs you'll find that the trash actually does more damage than the bosses.

[DaddyHrothgar]

You make it sound like our expectations are exceedingly impossible, but again...we just want them to use mitigations. And I encounter these tanks way too often for it to be a "non-issue".

[RyuDragnier]

It's fairly obvious to tell when they're using mitigations too, as the difference in healing one who uses mitigations and one who doesn't is the equivalent of healing somebody overgeared and somebody undergeared (if neither are using mitigation). There's that much of a difference in the healing required when mitigation is present that you can tell, especially if you are the one healing.