Hello Yoshi-P

[Dionysius]

Play Savage/Ultimate if you want "engaging" contents for healers.

[AnotherPerson]

Play Savage/Ultimate if you want "engaging" contents for healers.

That's probably the biggest issue people have with healers currently - healers have already disproven that "engagement" improves at higher-end gameplay. Savage and Ultimate healer gameplay is pretty much the same as regular normal gameplay. You just spam 2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 nonstop because everything is scripted. The healing engagement doesn't exist because all jobs and roles contribute to reducing lethal damage - not healers. At high end fights, healers just do a bit of healing every 30+ seconds. High-end fights are only mechanically difficult compared to their normal counterparts - but that goes for all roles and jobs. Every DPS and Tank has to deal with mechanics as well, but they also get a nice DPS rotation in their downtime. Healers just have nothing in the vast majority of the time they wait for more damage other than 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1, which means turn brain off for a large portion of the fight. Not very engaging, mind you.

[Katoar]

Play Savage/Ultimate if you want "engaging" contents for healers.

I now know better and I am aware that Ultimates do not offer an interesting healing experience. Although I have not cleared one, I have proggred Ucob for two or three instances. Gameplaywise the most difficult thing is coping with buggy mechanics, unlucky server ticks and mechs interrupting Dosis casts. Ultimates are a spectacular time sink. Their greatest challenge is finding 7 other people to waste time with. It is actually very poorly designed content and the play rate stands as proof.

As for Savage, there are countless clears done with no healers so it's irrational to think that being irrelevant can somehow be engaging. Week 1 healing is a farce. I did week 1 with PF for Asphodelos with 0 Piety and was still able to heal when needed, rezz and recover from mistakes whenever possible. If we wiped it was never because I was out of mana.

As of now, I am playing different games, not MMORPGs, to get a sense of thrill and excitement, free of idiocy and degenerative elements. I happened to witness the severity of Yoshida's lack of understanding of healing jobs in FFXIV and so I felt compelled to speak.

[GoatOfWar]

Play Savage/Ultimate if you want "engaging" contents for healers.

What about the other 99.9% of content?

[SenzorialBoundries]

Play Savage/Ultimate if you want "engaging" contents for healers.

savage is not different its the same 111111111111111. you have like 3 gcd heals cast per fight.

[Saefinn]

Play Savage/Ultimate if you want "engaging" contents for healers.

1) People have found that it doesn't improve for Savage/Ultimate, the content is harder, but you still have the exact same problem, especially once you've learned the content. (arguably, it's the content and not the healing that's engaging)
2) As a semi-casual player, I'm not doing Savage/Ultimate clears, Savage is something I'll rarely do, because it's not something you casually do and I'm not interested in doing it most of the time.
3) Savage/Ultimate represents only a small portion of the game's content, shouldn't the content be engaging overall? I can at least use my full kits at DPS & Tank and whilst I realise given the nature of healing I'm not going to be able to use my full kit all the time, but a compromise needs to be had so it doesn't feel like a single button spam. Something needs to break the monotony.

It doesn't help that, in general, people are not great at verbalizing issues. From the perspective of these players, the "Healer Revamp" crowd are misconstrued as these "elitists" that want the healer's difficulty to increase three fold, "force" healers to DPS in all content, and make the kit 10x more complex just for the sake of complexity.

BUT, that's not the argument at all. Most healers would be happy with something other than 2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2. "Casual" (in quotes, because I am absolutely a casual player but definitely don't see myself in that group) players enjoy playing a job they know that is easy and they don't want someone coming in and "changing it for the sake of changing it." Despite the fact that PLENTY of things can be done to make the healers more fun for EVERYONE.

Many of these casual people refuse to DPS anyway, so I'm not sure why increasing the complexity of the DPS kit would be something that they would be adamantly against (unless what they're actually against is the decrease of complexity of the healer kit and if that's the case, it sounds like they like complexity and should be trying to DPS).

Pretty much, I'm a semi-casual and WHM co-healer is a semi-casual, we're far from the elite types, we're just experienced healers. All we want is for the experience to be engaging. We're not asking for being a healer to be difficult or overly complex. We think what we had back in 2.0 and 3.0 were good (though I think 2.0 SCH was better as it was not OP), but WHM was in need of more love. The game evolves, sure, but healers haven't evolved with it. The way healers have evolved is to handle a much higher healing requirement, but the content hasn't increased healing requirements.

I don't think embracing the DPS downtime more would make the classes any less accessible either. You're right that many don't DPS anyway and DPS is optional for the vast majority of content so those people can do what they like with their DPS, but it is what most healers end up doing for the majority of their time, regardless of whether they want to DPS or not, it's what we have to fill the space.

It feels like the perception is that more healing skills = more healing focus, fewer DPS skills = less DPS focus, which isn't true because it means less healing required with only a monotonous DPS left to fill the time.

To me the ideal situation would be where you're healing 70% of the times and DPSing 30% of the time, but if I'm going to have to deal with a weighting of 30% healing and 70% DPS, then give me more in the DPS department. If they don't want us focusing on DPS then change the weighting. If you can't do that because of accessibility then give us more to do that isn't healing that isn't required for newbies or less skilled healers. Otherwise they can't expect experienced healers to enjoy the experience.

[LeonKeyh]

Pretty much, I'm a semi-casual and WHM co-healer is a semi-casual, we're far from the elite types, we're just experienced healers. All we want is for the experience to be engaging. We're not asking for being a healer to be difficult or overly complex. We think what we had back in 2.0 and 3.0 were good (though I think 2.0 SCH was better as it was not OP), but WHM was in need of more love. The game evolves, sure, but healers haven't evolved with it. The way healers have evolved is to handle a much higher healing requirement, but the content hasn't increased healing requirements.

I don't think embracing the DPS downtime more would make the classes any less accessible either. You're right that many don't DPS anyway and DPS is optional for the vast majority of content so those people can do what they like with their DPS, but it is what most healers end up doing for the majority of their time, regardless of whether they want to DPS or not, it's what we have to fill the space.

It feels like the perception is that more healing skills = more healing focus, fewer DPS skills = less DPS focus, which isn't true because it means less healing required with only a monotonous DPS left to fill the time.

To me the ideal situation would be where you're healing 70% of the times and DPSing 30% of the time, but if I'm going to have to deal with a weighting of 30% healing and 70% DPS, then give me more in the DPS department. If they don't want us focusing on DPS then change the weighting. If you can't do that because of accessibility then give us more to do that isn't healing that isn't required for newbies or less skilled healers. Otherwise they can't expect experienced healers to enjoy the experience.

I DEFINITELY get the idea of wanting to heal more. That seems fairly ideal for a role called...healer. However, it's unrealistic at this point (IMO) and I feel like requesting it is too easy for SE to ignore. Increasing the amount of healing required is going to be a HUGE undertaking including revamping most encounters and trying to rebalance all of the different abilities.

That's why generally people lean towards a more interesting DPS kit. They can fairly easily make a DPS rotation do an average of whatever Glare/Dia would do in the same number of button presses. Honestly, I'd rather have something "different", namely having the healers lean into a "support" role. I like the idea of indirect DPS like AST's cards and I feel like giving healers more abilities to increase the damage of other players would make the role distinct while also giving them more to do. I would say WHM/SGE would get a bigger DPS kit and SCH/AST would be focused on support more.

But, it seems unlikely anything would change unfortunately.

[Saefinn]

I DEFINITELY get the idea of wanting to heal more. That seems fairly ideal for a role called...healer. However, it's unrealistic at this point (IMO) and I feel like requesting it is too easy for SE to ignore. Increasing the amount of healing required is going to be a HUGE undertaking including revamping most encounters and trying to rebalance all of the different abilities.

That's why generally people lean towards a more interesting DPS kit. They can fairly easily make a DPS rotation do an average of whatever Glare/Dia would do in the same number of button presses. Honestly, I'd rather have something "different", namely having the healers lean into a "support" role. I like the idea of indirect DPS like AST's cards and I feel like giving healers more abilities to increase the damage of other players would make the role distinct while also giving them more to do. I would say WHM/SGE would get a bigger DPS kit and SCH/AST would be focused on support more.

But, it seems unlikely anything would change unfortunately.

Oh I agree, it's unrealistic at this point, because making meaningful changes in that respect would be a monumental job.

The stance I take is that they should:
- Give us more to do in our downtime IE: DPS because the game isn't designed to value anything else we could be doing.
- Increase the healing requirement in a meaningful way for future content.

But it is unlikely to change because they've pretty much said as much. But if there is any optimism it's that they were the same way with MCH and MNK and eventually they got positive reworks. That said, I'm not holding onto any such optimism until evidence shows that it could go that way. And it's why I'm worried by the announcement of 7.0 changes for AST because if they've singled out AST over the others, it feels like they're probably going to go after the cards, which is about the only thing keeping me playing a healer role, as it's more than a Broil/Glare/Dosis spam, it's not much, but it breaks up the monotony in my down time, but I like the healing kits of all healer jobs...when I get to use them. And I can get enjoyment out of SGE if I purposefully play it badly as now that I've gotten good with it, I have to (which I know when SGE came out was my fear and hope I wouldn't get to).