So, what now? Lotteries with 150+ bids until... when?

[Sairys]

Then if the people who preferred placard spamming to the current housing system remained hidden all these years while others in favor of lottery spoke out like you claim, then it sounds like they had more than enough time to communicate this and failed to do so.

Except that those people wouldn't have had reason to come onto the forums to complain about it and as such wouldn't have seen the posts asking for lotteries, etc. It's a pretty common occurrence in games dev and one of the reasons devs responding to the forums rather than actual data is risky. It's similar to how you'd expect most threads to be full of people complaining about a feature because the people that are happy with things wouldn't be on the forums complaining. It's a pretty simple concept that also shows up in customer service.

[SweetestLily]

Except that those people wouldn't have had reason to come onto the forums to complain about it and as such wouldn't have seen the posts asking for lotteries, etc. It's a pretty common occurrence in games dev and one of the reasons devs responding to the forums rather than actual data is risky. It's similar to how you'd expect most threads to be full of people complaining about a feature because the people that are happy with things wouldn't be on the forums complaining. It's a pretty simple concept that also shows up in customer service.

Then it looks like the majority won what they asked for.

[Sairys]

I think the lotto system is probably the most fair of the two systems we've had so far. It gives more people an opportunity to participate. And I say this as someone who works from home and is currently on medical leave and therefore COULD sit and click a plot for hours under the old system (but there hadn't been any houses available on my server in the entire time I've been playing until the new district was added).

But ultimately though it's still a bad system because of the supply and demand issue. And will continue to be a problem until they make it so that everyone who really wants a house is actually able to get one. As it is, hundreds of players on busy servers will never be able to get one no matter how much they want one, ESPECIALLY with demolition still frozen.

They either need to keep adding more districts/wards until demand is more reasonably met (or even use a LotRO type system that auto-creates new wards when all existing ones are full), or add instanced housing.

If they can't do that any time soon then at minimum I really hope they turn demolition back on so active players at least get a chance vs. people who quit years/months ago, and I really wish people who had cheated the old system to buy multiple houses/entire blocks in a ward hadn't been grandfathered in considering how limited supply is already. Those people should have to pick one house to keep and the others go back on the market (refund them the full price even, that's fine).

Amusingly, one of the reasons the lottery could have been a bad idea is that the old system could encourage apathy because it was too much effort.
Once auto-demolition goes back on the lotteries mean that it's pretty trivial to check every lottery period, so anyone who even casually wants a house has a reason to check in and then experience disappointment either because nothing is open or because something did but the majority lose the lottery. There'll still be people that give up but it seems like more will hold out hope and be disappointed because it's easier.

[Sairys]

Then it looks like the majority won what they asked for.

That's also not a given, it's just a group of people complaining on the internet.
For it to be the majority of players it would have had to have been millions of players all agreeing, barring that it's just a portion of the playerbase complaining about something others aren't paying attention to. Realistically, if it was the millions of players that would make up a majority of the playerbase then housing would become one of their highest priorities rather than something they're only slowly patching but not really fixing.

[ShantiiElorei]

Then it looks like the majority won what they asked for.

I don't know what most people prefer. But Sairys is correct that you can't actually judge majority opinion based solely on forum comments. It's a fact that people who are upset about something are more likely to complain on the forums when that thing is affecting them. People who are happy with the status quo are more likely to be silent. (Speaking as someone who used to work in games and has a spouse who still does).

I see issues with both systems. The lotto is more generally fair/egalitarian, the old system favored people with more flexible schedules, more free time, and people who REALLY wanted a house so badly they'd go above and beyond for it. It's probably hard to judge what most people prefer also because I assume the lotto system made a lot more people interested in trying for a house who before may have considered it out of reach.

tl;dr it's possible the core of people who were REALLY enthusiastic about housing may be upset about this change, but this change may be more popular with the player base at large, including those with a casual interest in housing.

I'm someone who would have been able to placard camp (had there actually been houses available on my server before the change) and in the "very enthusiastic about housing" camp, and yeah it does kind of suck to keep losing out to people who may just not even care that much but wanted to give it a shot. But I'm also not sure the previous system was the best thing either, as clicking for several hours isn't so much "effort" as it is a miserable experience. I would've done it, but likely ended up with a repetitive stress injury as a result which is not something that should be happening just to get a virtual house in a video game.

Ultimately they need to decide whether they want housing to be exclusive to only the most committed and enthusiastic and add more reasonable hoops (high prices, some long involved quest chain, etc) or whether they want it to be accessible to much of the player base, even those with a casual interest, in which case they DESPERATELY just need to improve the supply problem.

Because what they currently have done is made attempting to get a house easily accessible to anyone with a passing casual interest while still having a severely limited supply and that is just a recipe for disaster.

[ShantiiElorei]

Amusingly, one of the reasons the lottery could have been a bad idea is that the old system could encourage apathy because it was too much effort.
Once auto-demolition goes back on the lotteries mean that it's pretty trivial to check every lottery period, so anyone who even casually wants a house has a reason to check in and then experience disappointment either because nothing is open or because something did but the majority lose the lottery. There'll still be people that give up but it seems like more will hold out hope and be disappointed because it's easier.

This exactly, I was writing my earlier reply before I saw this lol. This is the problem. It's way easier to TRY to get a house now so way more are likely attempting but supply is still extremely limited. I consider that maybe the ONE benefit of the old system, in that if they really wanted housing to be an exclusive thing that not everyone can get (which I think is silly, why restrict an entire part of the game to only a few?) then the old system at least ensured those MOST committed would have a better chance of winning.

Ultimately I am all for opening housing up to more people. That's the way it should be, that's the way it is in most other games that have housing. They just need to actually go all in on it and either add instanced housing or more wards.

[yoshikwalla]

Housing is fine as it is, no thanks. Instanced housing can stay away.

No, it's not.

[Sairys]

This exactly, I was writing my earlier reply before I saw this lol. This is the problem. It's way easier to TRY to get a house now so way more are likely attempting but supply is still extremely limited. I consider that maybe the ONE benefit of the old system, in that if they really wanted housing to be an exclusive thing that not everyone can get (which I think is silly, why restrict an entire part of the game to only a few?) then the old system at least ensured those MOST committed would have a better chance of winning.

Ultimately I am all for opening housing up to more people. That's the way it should be, that's the way it is in most other games that have housing. They just need to actually go all in on it and either add instanced housing or more wards.

Yeah, personally my preference would be instanced that's upgradeable.
Entirely unlikely to ever happen but it'd be cool if FCs were able to purchase an instanced ward with size categories that have requirements you have to meet to upgrade to them. The size would change the fc house, but also give a number of plots members could move their house to allow that neighbourhood feeling still. But also imagine all those epic nightclub houses in that system where you could work together to make a party village.

[TwistedTea]

I will never stop laughing at the fact that the playerbase has been BEGGING for a lottery system on these forums for YEARS. They finally cave and give you all exactly what you asked for, and now you realize you didn't actually want one after all and are pulling the classic kindergarten tantrum because now you want the old way back. This is exactly why they sometimes hesitate to give us what we want. Because people themselves don't even know what they want.

Did the majority of the playerbase ask for the lottery system - another band-aid to the limited ward housing system or a proper solution to address the supply problem?

Secondly, the lottery system was not meant to address the supply problem but to address the consequences of the limited ward housing system. The placard camping system before the lottery did not respect a player's time and incentivized botting/3rd party tools.

The sensible players know exactly what they want; a long-term scalable solution:
A proper housing system with enough supply so that every individual player can get a house.

A fully instanced housing system which is a viable alternative to the limited ward housing system. Examples of good fully instanced housing systems, are Rift and Wildstar.

SE has already demonstrated they're capable of fully instanced housing with Island Sanctuaries since every player will be getting a massive island for free.

SE can also improve apartments. Let us upgrade them for gil into condos/penthouses.

If Islands/Apartments were viable alternatives to housing and the minimum baseline for every player - the demand for limited ward housing would decrease.

Limited ward housing could then be something for players who want to compete for "exclusive/flex" houses.

Did you miss all the requests over the years for fully instanced housing?

[Sairys]

Did the majority of the playerbase ask for the lottery system - another band-aid to the limited ward housing system or a proper solution to address the supply problem?

Secondly, the lottery system was not meant to address the supply problem but to address the consequences of the limited ward housing system. The placard camping system before the lottery did not respect a player's time and incentivized botting/3rd party tools.

The sensible players know exactly what they want; a long-term scalable solution:
A proper housing system with enough supply so that every individual player can get a house.

A fully instanced housing system which is a viable alternative to the limited ward housing system. Examples of good fully instanced housing systems, are Rift and Wildstar.

SE has already demonstrated they're capable of fully instanced housing with Island Sanctuaries since every player will be getting a massive island for free.

SE can also improve apartments. Let us upgrade them for gil into condos/penthouses.

If Islands/Apartments were viable alternatives to housing and the minimum baseline for every player - the demand for limited ward housing would decrease.

Limited ward housing could then be something for players who want to compete for "exclusive/flex" houses.

Did you miss all the requests over the years for fully instanced housing?

"Housing: Reborn"

Though really, the only question for me is about how wards actually fit. They'd get grandfathered in but you'd want people who don't actually care about being in a ward to move out so there's space for people who do care to move in. Aside from taxes, one thing would be making it so you can only have one house regardless of whether that's instanced or ward which would force the choice between being potentially stuck with a small in a ward or upgrading to a medium/large in an instance.