So, what now? Lotteries with 150+ bids until... when?

[Stormpeaks]

Gonna assume you're one of the lucky few who was able to get a house and therefore think nothing needs to change? Must be nice.

They can keep the current housing system as-is for all I care and just add a SEPARATE instanced housing district so at least the many people who want to be able to enjoy this part of the game can at least do so, in a public neighborhood or not. Then everyone is happy, problem solved!

Oh I do think something needs to change, go back to first come first serve with placard camping, problem solved. Odds are better, sure it's a waste of time, but at least you dont get 3 chances a month agaisnt over 100 people.

[ShantiiElorei]

Oh I do think something needs to change, go back to first come first serve with placard camping, problem solved. Odds are better, sure it's a waste of time, but at least you dont get 3 chances a month agaisnt over 100 people.

That system excluded anyone with a job, school, or other responsibilities, which also sucks. And is frankly a great way to give people repetitive stress injuries. I don't think that was any better. The issue is availability more than anything. That's what they need to solve.

[yoshikwalla]

Housing is fine as it is, no thanks. Instanced housing can stay away.

No, it's not.

[ShantiiElorei]

I think the lotto system is probably the most fair of the two systems we've had so far. It gives more people an opportunity to participate. And I say this as someone who works from home and is currently on medical leave and therefore COULD sit and click a plot for hours under the old system (but there hadn't been any houses available on my server in the entire time I've been playing until the new district was added).

But ultimately though it's still a bad system because of the supply and demand issue. And will continue to be a problem until they make it so that everyone who really wants a house is actually able to get one. As it is, hundreds of players on busy servers will never be able to get one no matter how much they want one, ESPECIALLY with demolition still frozen.

They either need to keep adding more districts/wards until demand is more reasonably met (or even use a LotRO type system that auto-creates new wards when all existing ones are full), or add instanced housing.

If they can't do that any time soon then at minimum I really hope they turn demolition back on so active players at least get a chance vs. people who quit years/months ago, and I really wish people who had cheated the old system to buy multiple houses/entire blocks in a ward hadn't been grandfathered in considering how limited supply is already. Those people should have to pick one house to keep and the others go back on the market (refund them the full price even, that's fine).

[Sairys]

I think the lotto system is probably the most fair of the two systems we've had so far. It gives more people an opportunity to participate. And I say this as someone who works from home and is currently on medical leave and therefore COULD sit and click a plot for hours under the old system (but there hadn't been any houses available on my server in the entire time I've been playing until the new district was added).

But ultimately though it's still a bad system because of the supply and demand issue. And will continue to be a problem until they make it so that everyone who really wants a house is actually able to get one. As it is, hundreds of players on busy servers will never be able to get one no matter how much they want one, ESPECIALLY with demolition still frozen.

They either need to keep adding more districts/wards until demand is more reasonably met (or even use a LotRO type system that auto-creates new wards when all existing ones are full), or add instanced housing.

If they can't do that any time soon then at minimum I really hope they turn demolition back on so active players at least get a chance vs. people who quit years/months ago, and I really wish people who had cheated the old system to buy multiple houses/entire blocks in a ward hadn't been grandfathered in considering how limited supply is already. Those people should have to pick one house to keep and the others go back on the market (refund them the full price even, that's fine).

Amusingly, one of the reasons the lottery could have been a bad idea is that the old system could encourage apathy because it was too much effort.
Once auto-demolition goes back on the lotteries mean that it's pretty trivial to check every lottery period, so anyone who even casually wants a house has a reason to check in and then experience disappointment either because nothing is open or because something did but the majority lose the lottery. There'll still be people that give up but it seems like more will hold out hope and be disappointed because it's easier.

[ShantiiElorei]

Amusingly, one of the reasons the lottery could have been a bad idea is that the old system could encourage apathy because it was too much effort.
Once auto-demolition goes back on the lotteries mean that it's pretty trivial to check every lottery period, so anyone who even casually wants a house has a reason to check in and then experience disappointment either because nothing is open or because something did but the majority lose the lottery. There'll still be people that give up but it seems like more will hold out hope and be disappointed because it's easier.

This exactly, I was writing my earlier reply before I saw this lol. This is the problem. It's way easier to TRY to get a house now so way more are likely attempting but supply is still extremely limited. I consider that maybe the ONE benefit of the old system, in that if they really wanted housing to be an exclusive thing that not everyone can get (which I think is silly, why restrict an entire part of the game to only a few?) then the old system at least ensured those MOST committed would have a better chance of winning.

Ultimately I am all for opening housing up to more people. That's the way it should be, that's the way it is in most other games that have housing. They just need to actually go all in on it and either add instanced housing or more wards.

[Sairys]

This exactly, I was writing my earlier reply before I saw this lol. This is the problem. It's way easier to TRY to get a house now so way more are likely attempting but supply is still extremely limited. I consider that maybe the ONE benefit of the old system, in that if they really wanted housing to be an exclusive thing that not everyone can get (which I think is silly, why restrict an entire part of the game to only a few?) then the old system at least ensured those MOST committed would have a better chance of winning.

Ultimately I am all for opening housing up to more people. That's the way it should be, that's the way it is in most other games that have housing. They just need to actually go all in on it and either add instanced housing or more wards.

Yeah, personally my preference would be instanced that's upgradeable.
Entirely unlikely to ever happen but it'd be cool if FCs were able to purchase an instanced ward with size categories that have requirements you have to meet to upgrade to them. The size would change the fc house, but also give a number of plots members could move their house to allow that neighbourhood feeling still. But also imagine all those epic nightclub houses in that system where you could work together to make a party village.

[Sairys]

Did the majority of the playerbase ask for the lottery system - another band-aid to the limited ward housing system or a proper solution to address the supply problem?

Secondly, the lottery system was not meant to address the supply problem but to address the consequences of the limited ward housing system. The placard camping system before the lottery did not respect a player's time and incentivized botting/3rd party tools.

The sensible players know exactly what they want; a long-term scalable solution:
A proper housing system with enough supply so that every individual player can get a house.

A fully instanced housing system which is a viable alternative to the limited ward housing system. Examples of good fully instanced housing systems, are Rift and Wildstar.

SE has already demonstrated they're capable of fully instanced housing with Island Sanctuaries since every player will be getting a massive island for free.

SE can also improve apartments. Let us upgrade them for gil into condos/penthouses.

If Islands/Apartments were viable alternatives to housing and the minimum baseline for every player - the demand for limited ward housing would decrease.

Limited ward housing could then be something for players who want to compete for "exclusive/flex" houses.

Did you miss all the requests over the years for fully instanced housing?

"Housing: Reborn"

Though really, the only question for me is about how wards actually fit. They'd get grandfathered in but you'd want people who don't actually care about being in a ward to move out so there's space for people who do care to move in. Aside from taxes, one thing would be making it so you can only have one house regardless of whether that's instanced or ward which would force the choice between being potentially stuck with a small in a ward or upgrading to a medium/large in an instance.

[ShantiiElorei]

Did the majority of the playerbase ask for the lottery system - another band-aid to the limited ward housing system or a proper solution to address the supply problem?

Secondly, the lottery system was not meant to address the supply problem but to address the consequences of the limited ward housing system. The placard camping system before the lottery did not respect a player's time and incentivized botting/3rd party tools.

The sensible players know exactly what they want; a long-term scalable solution:
A proper housing system with enough supply so that every individual player can get a house.

A fully instanced housing system which is a viable alternative to the limited ward housing system. Examples of good fully instanced housing systems, are Rift and Wildstar.

SE has already demonstrated they're capable of fully instanced housing with Island Sanctuaries since every player will be getting a massive island for free.

SE can also improve apartments. Let us upgrade them for gil into condos/penthouses.

If Islands/Apartments were viable alternatives to housing and the minimum baseline for every player - the demand for limited ward housing would decrease.

Limited ward housing could then be something for players who want to compete for "exclusive/flex" houses.

Did you miss all the requests over the years for fully instanced housing?

Yeah THIS is probably a safe bet for "what most players want" (at least most players who have been unable to get a house) regardless of which they prefer of the two systems we've had.

"Housing: Reborn"

Though really, the only question for me is about how wards actually fit. They'd get grandfathered in but you'd want people who don't actually care about being in a ward to move out so there's space for people who do care to move in. Aside from taxes, one thing would be making it so you can only have one house regardless of whether that's instanced or ward which would force the choice between being potentially stuck with a small in a ward or upgrading to a medium/large in an instance.

I like this idea! Keep the current wards with the current system, add instanced districts elsewhere, keep the limit at one house per person regardless of which type they get, and let people move from the non-instanced wards to the instanced ones (with the opportunity to upgrade to larger plots) to encourage people to help free up the existing wards for those who REALLY want non-instanced housing, vs. those who'd be happy with any kind of house.

Though one good exception to the "one per" rule might be: if you already have a FC house, you can still buy a personal instanced house? I dunno how people would feel about that. I don't run a FC so I'm not sure if those who do are sad they can't get a personal house if they have one for their FC?

[Jojoya]

"Housing: Reborn"

Though really, the only question for me is about how wards actually fit. They'd get grandfathered in but you'd want people who don't actually care about being in a ward to move out so there's space for people who do care to move in. Aside from taxes, one thing would be making it so you can only have one house regardless of whether that's instanced or ward which would force the choice between being potentially stuck with a small in a ward or upgrading to a medium/large in an instance.

There's no reason an improved instanced system couldn't exist side by side with wards.

The improved instanced system could even be accessed through the wards just as apartments already are. I think all the housing districts have areas that are unused dead ends. Turn the dead ends into the entrance for "private estates" (would need a better name), which would be the new instanced system. It would give the added benefit of more traffic in the wards as those owning the instanced housing would want to go back into the ward to access marketboards or vendors or the "recreation areas" (like the Brimming Heart or the Shirogane hot springs) on occasion. It would give everyone a house at the same time it improves the "neighborhood" feeling that the wards are supposed to provide but don't.

Yoshi has commented a couple times over the years, mostly in live letters, that he's aware of the housing shortage. He's also stated that they prefer the ward system and can't add instanced housing to it. He's given several reasons over the years for why instanced housing isn't possible;
-the social aspect is the most common one
-storage space on the servers
-the way the wards were programmed doesn't really allow for instanced housing
-he prefers wards to instances.

More recently, the global supply chain issues have only complicated any potential changes to any system. If they weren't planning it 4 years ago, its not going to happen any time in the near future. Thats just the reality of the world we're in right now.

None of that's to say instanced housing can't eventually happen but we're unlikely to see it. Personally, I think Yoshi has convinced himself of that they've put so much into wards now, that it would be a waste to abandon it and switch to instanced housing. They'll just keep throwing wards at the problem until demand is met.

Most of that makes no sense when all housing interiors, whether house, FC private chamber or apartment, are instanced.

They already co-exist.

The only reason I've personally heard him give is that they like the social aspect of wards and yet they fail in that regard for the majority of house owners.

- There's a limited number of owners in each ward/subdivision, usually with different schedules on when they can play the game.

- If they are playing the game, most of the time they're going to be doing other things instead of standing outside their house in the ward where other players can see them (like playing around inside of their house where they can't be seen).

- Lack of reasons to travel within the ward not to mention the aethernet shards that can take players directly to their destination those rare occasions they do need to means greatly reduced chances of random encounters that lead to socialization.

- If socializing is intended to mean hanging out at the FC house with your FC members and their invited guests, or going to a RP venue, that can be accomplished through instanced housing as easily as a ward. RIFT has a great system for helping players find and travel to other players' housing, not to mention the whitelist and blacklist features that frequently get requested for housing here.

SE need to stop believing they can train the player base to use housing the way YoshiP wants it to be used and start looking at the actual experience house owners are getting on a daily basis. I love my house, I will visit it a few times each play session but I'm still spending 90% of the time I'm logged in doing other content, 9% inside of my house and only 1% standing outside of it. Even last expansion when I spent about 300 hours sitting in my yard grinding out my Expert crafting achievements, I only saw 3 players randomly pass by my house.

If a player is after an actual social experience, they're much better off hanging out at the Limsa, Ul'dah or Gridania aetherytes where players actually gather to socialize and other players are constantly passing through.