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  1. #11
    Player
    Payotz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    310
    Character
    Payotz Reading
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Utility tax discussion snip.
    And I would argue that the role itself won't be taxed because it's already taxed for utility that's not even there.
    Ranged Physicals only purpose is to give a 1% uncontrollable dps buff and LB regen, that's it. That's literally the only reason why they're being taken in parties, and even that's barely hitting the minimum.

    Ranged Physicals are already paying for the price of utility, without getting any utility in return. That's my whole argument.
    There's no tax awaiting for the role because it's already built in to how low dps the role is compared to the other roles.

    In fact, there was a time when the 1% dps buff wasn't even enough back in ShB launch, and that people would bring double BLMs instead of a physical ranged and caster precisely because the role has been overtaxed ever since the rework from Stormblood to Shadowbringers. Refresh is not gonna tax the role because they are already taxed as if it exists currently.

    Giving back utility hits two birds with one stone. It gives back the identity of the role as utility dps, AND it justifies the low dps that the role actually brings, despite the 1% dps buff.

    And even then, the "tax" for free movement or all this utility is just added responsibility for the ranged physical player. The mechanics that are designed with the role in mind will be the "tax" for both of those things as a Ranged Physical will have to bait AoEs out of the party, or make sure to CC the right things.

    The role itself is not gonna be taxed even further than it currently is.

    And also with that logic then things like Combat Peloton will tax the role itself, when it simply wouldn't. Refresh is not as strong as a raise to warrant extreme adjustments. It's in-line with Palisade, Combat Peloton, and current Tactician.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    What now? I simply said that basic damage raidbuffs have no business being called utility because they do nothing more than move numbers around to then be moved right back again (job value -> ACT raw DPS numbers -> FFLogs rDPS numbers).

    Yes, that includes Trick Attack/NewMug, Arcane Circle, Battle Voice, Battle Litany, Standard Step, Technical Step, shared Devilment, Bard's raidwide buff portion of its Songs, etc., most of the effect of Brotherhood, Chain Strategem, etc. It does not include the likes of Arm Graze, let alone Intervention or Divine Benison.
    They are utility though. They're the most basic type of utility which is a damage cooldown.
    In fact, they have the same gameplay as the utility you mention(Intervention and Divine Benison), which is either pressing it on cooldown for a free 500 potency heal (Divine Benison) or pressing it in a specific time according to the mitigation sheet (Intervention). You would frequently either delay and move raid buffs to optimal timings without losing a use depending on the fight.

    If the boss jumps at the 2 min mark, then you're gonna call for raid buffs at 2 min and 30 seconds.
    If for some reason at 4 mins 30 seconds, there's a mechanic that's happening that's a Hello World type mechanic, where you can't keep uptime on the boss as a party, then you're going to delay the raid buff call to maybe after the mechanic finishes.

    There's also specific scenarios where you need to do a tight dps check here, so you hold on your 2 mins, and then use it on the tight dps check that you have to break in order to go to the next phase (like rewind DSR).
    There's also specific scenarios where you delay raid buffs to line up with pot timings as well.

    Raid buffs have a lot more gameplay than "pressing it on cooldown" if you delve into optimizing it, which is specifically what you said what's good with Mage's Ballad.

    Your definition of both "just shifting numbers around to be moved back" and "bad utility with no gameplay" applies to the 1% DPS buff that each role provides to the party (which they provide by merely existing )

    In fact, I can even dispute the existence of Divine Benison and Intervention with your argument against Refresh, in that Divine Benison and Intervention holds additional cooldowns hostage, and that it's just extra CPM you just press at the same time every single pull anyway. According to your logic, all of this utility is just needless CPM that should be taken out because it just makes Healers heal less and it should be baked passively in the trait Tank Mastery because it literally has the same gameplay as Lucid Dreaming, which is nonsensical.

    And by that logic, Refresh is more of a utility skill and has better interesting gameplay than both Divine Benison, Intervention and all the raid buffs because you can use it as a prog tool AND you can plan for it for heal heavy phases that the dev team will design new fights around, because Refresh is a baseline role action.
    (2)
    Last edited by Payotz; 07-16-2022 at 01:27 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grann-Goro View Post
    Here I present you the new healer tutorial in FFXIV :
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlc-QtQxGys&list=PLvHbKTvfkkvI6D__Pg84M_18NhpPR3ojs