Yoshi-P: Flippant dismissal of player criticism is a poor look for a lead developer.

[Raven2014]

Also, equating that sales are a sign of a good product is a terrible argument for obvious reasons, lol.

It's not an absolute guarantee, but it's still a metric. I'm not exactly sure what's the point you're trying to make here?

It's like saying "Education doesn't guarantee good job and good life", you can even cite some examples like Bill Gate or Einstein as school drop out ... but again, what exactly the point to make there? That education isn't important and should just be ignored?

Sure, it's not a guarantee, but a game with a good sale still has a much better indicator and align with a "good" game than a one with poor sale. Just like you can be an A students and still end up broke, but in general those who received good education will have a better chance at having a good life.

Also can we stop pretending like "a growing number of players" is a sign there's quality?

Or we can stop pretending the world revolving around us and our own taste, and anything that goes contrary to it is of inferior qualities.

I have been enjoying FF14 for the last 8 years, and I hope that will continue. But I don't hold SE under any obligation to please "me", rather the moment they start producing something I don't like, I just call it quit and move on to other things. What important to a MMO is to make thing that the most people can enjoy, I'm not narcissist enough to think I will always be part of that group.

The day I depart FF14 I will wish all those remain and would come in the future to continue enjoying their time, not with bitter resentment that the game should burn in hell because it's no longer cater to my taste.

[Deceptus]

Yeah...Blizzard and WoW broke records with their WoD, BfA and Shadowlands expansions. It ended up ruining their reputation more each time, which broke some other records that they are probably not too proud of. lol So yeah, sales do not always indicate how good (or bad) a game is.

Yep, broke records with expansion release sales and then broke records again with plunges in players subscribed shortly after.

[magitekLuna]

It's a simple statement of fact. Nature abhors a vacuum. You are absolutely going to fill all those slots and you will require more.

And that's the problem. It's a bad system.

[Striker44]

I enjoy shlock as much as the next guy but let's not pretend it's high brow entertainment. Same situation. Also, equating that sales are a sign of a good product is a terrible argument for obvious reasons, lol.

Except I wasn't talking sales. I'm talking metrics of active players. Both the peaks and the typical mid-expansion troughs have steadily risen with each xpac, and EW has continued that trend. We have significantly more ACTIVE PLAYERS now than we did during the HW days, which is considered a top xpac. Please stop cherry picking bad metrics because you can't admit your opinion is far and away the minority.

[Raven2014]

Chill, pray to jesus, seek some salvation or whatever because sis, you need it.

Hard to pray to him when I'm not even a Christian or Catholic.

May want to take up your own advise pal. That was just a fairly typical English expression and it wasn't even directed at anyone (I said that is something I would not do). The only thing that overblown here is your reaction to it. Not gonna lie, that was an entertaining reaction though. I've been living in the US for 20 years, have seen that phrased used many times than I can count and use it once a while myself, I have never seen anyone had such an off color reaction to it. So thanks for the laugh at least

You're trying too hard to make other look bad my dude.

[LeonKeyh]

Wow, all of this over a joke comment. Ok.

Since there are a couple of conversations going on here:

RE: Player numbers increasing - Definitely is not the end-all be-all of performance metrics for a game with a sub, retention metrics are _closer_ but there is still subjective things that you need to take into account. With the consistent lack of listening to player feedback about gameplay, the game is literally one bad/mediocre story expansion away from a mass exodus. They're HEAVILY leaning on the great storytelling and people's engagement with the story/characters. This is going to be a VERY important expansion though because they're swapping over to a different story and if that isn't good, then the people that have been here for a while that don't enjoy the gameplay are going to wonder why they're still playing.

Current glam system is definitely bad design and this is a bandaid so, yes, people will complain it's not enough at some point. As has been said before, they need a glam system like the Guild Wars 2 wardrobe system, that would fix all of this and ultimately remove a ton of wasted inventory space.



I realize that it's naive to say it, but I feel somewhat better about them stating that they're going to be more open with the reasoning on why they have made changes to classes. Mainly because we can call out bullshit and have an actual critical conversation with them. It's hard to have a conversation with someone about an action without knowing why the action was made. If that information is freely given then we can certainly do a better job at calling them out with dumb stuff like "Kaiten was removed due to action bloat" by pointing out the fact that so many other abilities could be merged if they mean "button bloat" and that removing Kaiten removed 1 button press every ~1 minute because you're just using the same kenki on 4 Shintens instead of 5 Kaitens.....

[Misplaced_Marbles]

Wow, all of this over a joke comment. Ok.

Yeah, that happens when you joke at the expense of those with concerns.

I realize that it's naive to say it, but I feel somewhat better about them stating that they're going to be more open with the reasoning on why they have made changes to classes. Mainly because we can call out bullshit and have an actual critical conversation with them. It's hard to have a conversation with someone about an action without knowing why the action was made. If that information is freely given then we can certainly do a better job at calling them out with dumb stuff like "Kaiten was removed due to action bloat" by pointing out the fact that so many other abilities could be merged if they mean "button bloat" and that removing Kaiten removed 1 button press every ~1 minute because you're just using the same kenki on 4 Shintens instead of 5 Kaitens.....

Being "more open" is just them showing/telling us what they're going to do, it doesn't mean any feedback will be acknowledged or acted upon. Naive, indeed.

[LeonKeyh]

Yeah, that happens when you joke at the expense of those with concerns.

400 items is plenty of room to hold every single glam plate if each piece of each one is different. They're joking at hoarders not being able to realize that they're holding onto crap that they'll never use, not at people who are complaining that the game is unplayable because of some issue or disability.

Being "more open" is just them showing/telling us what they're going to do, it doesn't mean any feedback will be acknowledged or acted upon. Naive, indeed.

Glad you read what I said. I can see why it wouldn't mean anything for you.

[Deceptus]

Current glam system is definitely bad design and this is a bandaid so, yes, people will complain it's not enough at some point. As has been said before, they need a glam system like the Guild Wars 2 wardrobe system, that would fix all of this and ultimately remove a ton of wasted inventory space.

The issue is, it has never been enough since the day it was implemented. It's always been a sub-par system due to it always being severely behind the amount of armor sets obtainable at the time of each band-aid fix (about to be the 3rd one).

The reason people compare it to other systems (WoW, GW, etc) is those systems were well established before FFXIV implemented theirs. The Devs say they like to take good ideas from other games and implement them in FFXIV but largely failed with this one. Whether it's engine limitations, technical debt limitations, spaghetti code, we don't know because they're simply not being honest with us.

[Wolfsbane706]

If your claim is that anyone who doesn't regularly cycle gear and remake glams from the chest isn't engaging in "real fashion,"

Who pissed in your cereal? Stop being a petty gatekeeping prick.

Anyway, it's been said before but it bears repeating: this whole thread is based around making a mountain out of an anthill.