To Tanks Who only pull One Mob at a Time......

[Shuuli]

May I ask why? The dungeons are not exactly hard, and are designed, post HW, to be doable by pulling 2 groups of mobs at a time. There's no reason a healer should be struggling to keep you alive, and you have your mitigations to help stay alive.

I'd also like to know why you always ignore me and others who ask you to pull more. I always politely suggest you pull more than one mob, but never once has such a tank ever responded and just keeps pulling one mob at a time. It's not just a few instances, it's EVERY instance of a tank who only pulls one mob. You guys never respond and just keep one-mob pulling.

There is absolutely zero reason to pull one group at a time. It's extremely boring, takes away what slight challenge I may have had as the healer (forcing me to just dps basically because one mob isn't enough to really require healing generally), it's slow, makes the dungeon take twice as long. Why do you insist on tanking this way?

Why are you asking it in the forum and not in the dungeon from your tank? o.o

[Jeeqbit]

May I ask why?

A lot of the tanks you meet in dungeons are doing it for the first time. They have not completed the map. They don't know what the unique characteristics of the enemies are.

For example, in Shadowbringers, some enemies would cast buffs that make them capable of wiping the party and it was the tank's job to pick out the correct enemy and interrupt it. In some dungeons, the enemies are already buffed or do tank busters which warrant heavier mitigation than normal. If it is their first time in the dungeon they can't know where to go or what the enemies will do.

Most of the people who tank casual content don't main the tank role or are just trying it out, so they have very little confidence in their abilities and fear that it might overwhelm the healer. There are dungeons where that is a fair concern, such as leveling dungeons, where you are item level synced close to the one the enemies were scaled to and a new healer may be caught off guard by the switch from braindead healing to having to spam heals in a big pull. To give you some examples, think of Dohn Mheg or the last 2 pulls in the last 5.0 MSQ dungeon. A new healer might be prone to losing confidence in their own abilities for letting the tank die in that situation and a lot of tanks don't want to put them in that situation.

The only way you can be certain that they aren't a new tank is to tank yourself so I do exactly that.

The dungeons are not exactly hard, and are designed, post HW, to be doable by pulling 2 groups of mobs at a time. There's no reason a healer should be struggling to keep you alive, and you have your mitigations to help stay alive.

Once they have cleared all of the dungeons for the first time, this advice will be useful to all these new tanks. Most new tanks probably don't spend their time on the forums which is full of veteran players.

I'd also like to know why you always ignore me and others who ask you to pull more.

Nobody likes to be told what to do and a lot of the time it will be seen as rude. Most people who show me what they said didn't word it as politely as they thought they did. Everyone has a playstyle and it's easier to just let them play how they want and get through the dungeon.

There is absolutely zero reason to pull one group at a time. It's extremely boring, takes away what slight challenge I may have had as the healer (forcing me to just dps basically because one mob isn't enough to really require healing generally), it's slow, makes the dungeon take twice as long.

I agree but people who haven't pulled multiple don't know how good it feels yet, so they don't know all of this. Like I explained, roulettes match you with people who queue directly for a duty and people queue directly when it's their first time. That's why there is usually a first-timer in the dungeon and it's unlikely they will want to rush.

[YukikoKurosawa]

Why are you asking it in the forum and not in the dungeon from your tank? o.o

Did you not read the part where I literally said tanks ignore me when I try to communicate with them to pull more? They do not give me any response.

[Kolsykol]

A lot of the tanks you meet in dungeons are doing it for the first time. They have not completed the map. They don't know what the unique characteristics of the enemies are.

I've actually seen people get lost in dungeons before even the new ones that are just straight forward the whole way through lol.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Hoo boy, haven't had this thread in a bit.

In ARR dungeons, evaluate the party and play accordingly. Lower level DPS might not have their AoE skills yet, or a new healer might panic and/or not know their spells too well yet, not to mention superfluous trash mobs in some dungeons like Brayflox and Aurum Vale. But by, say, the Vault at the latest, it's time to start going full throttle. As long as the tank's rotating their CDs properly, most trash mobs hit like a pile of half-cooked spaghetti. One or two dungeons might be exceptions (Bardam's Mettle can get rough, Dohn Mheg has those fuath in the beginning that buff the other mobs if not interrupted), but for the most part, there's no real reason to hold back anymore.

[Sebazy]

- Got themselves killed when there was not enough resources for a W2W pull, which lead to a wipe.

Out of curiosity, what dungeon was this?

About the only modern gated dungeon I've ever flat out not had resources for on SCH was the very first Bardam's pull back when it was relevant and I was still wearing HW raid gear. I'll take a portion of the blame as well for not getting my fairy/aetherflow up in time and getting caught napping as the tank steamed off. Outside of that occurrence years ago I can't think of a single occasion leveling or otherwise where the trash has been overwhelming to the point that I couldn't just brute force it with GCDs if need be.

[IkaraGreydancer]

You uh... realize this is the very definition of griefing behaviour? Like, not even joking but YPYT is absolutely reportable and if you do this to enough (or the right/wrong) people, you're liable to at the very least have a nice chat with a GM.

How is that griefing exactly? They decided to pull when even the Novice training says that's the tanks job. You don't get to overstep then expect others to cover you for your choice to do as such, then report people if they don't.

YPYT is only an issue because hot heads want to do the tanks job. You'll never encounter it if you stay in your own lane role wise.

I'll say this to any tanks that may be reading this, pull at your own pace. So long as youre mitigating and keeping aggro you're doing your job.

[Renalt]

I honestly have a hard time believing that unless you're being bad to people in chat too.
I mean you're allowed to kick people due to differences in playstyle so this sounds strange to me.
If people don't like it they can kick me or I'll simply leave if people keep doing it.

I mean if you're in P3S and a DPS just insists on grabbing the Tether is it griefing to just get tired of it and stop trying to save them and let them die?
Pulling being part of the Tanks job has been a thing since basically the dawn of MMO's and probably even further back than that in DnD.



I just disagree with that honestly but that's a matter of pov and just a personal stance on it.
I don't believe in essentially perpetuating a problem, people only do this because it works and because Tanks will begrudgingly put up with it.
If Tanks didn't put up with it then it wouldn't happen because people would learn that there's consequences to it.

Edit: There's obviously nuance to this, if someone does it as a mistake then I am not gonna let them die.
But if they repeatedly go out of their way to do it on purpose then I will.

Based on what I've heard too '' you pull you tank it '' is a normal mentality on the JP side of things.
Not sure if that's actually true or not, but yeah I think it's how it's supposed to work and I don't think it's something you'll get in trouble for.
DPS and Healers being super impatient and desperately bending over backwards just to pull is one of these things I hate about modern MMO mentalities, I view it as a degradation of the genre.

That's just how I am. No matter the role I play I will give it my all regardless if my team is trying to make things harder on purpose or if they are just naturally bad.

[BaconBits]

You know you're in a patch lull when the age old Tank pull thread rears it's ugly head again.

[NekoMataMata]

I love watching people defend this behavior. If you're in a level 60+ dungeon, you should be W2Wing. You're not new to the game anymore and you should have tomestome gear for whatever X0 level range you're in. That is good enough to W2W. It might not be easy but it's doable.

Now if there's a problem such as DPS not doing their jobs or the healer not being able to keep up, then after you wipe once, you can start single pulling, but until there's an issue, assume the best. Random note, but the whole blame game could be avoided if we just added DPS and healing meters into the game so after things go wrong we can actually know what went wrong above all else.

Also I find it funny how many people are defending tanks right now above all else. Tanks can be awful, healers can be awful, but I've been raged at more as a healer for things out of my control than I have as a tank. Tanks have the one little benefit of most DPS not knowing what have the mitigation icons look like, so when you run into a tank that doesn't mitigate a lot of DPS have no clue and you take the blame by default.

All other things aside, for the most part most tanks that single pull in 60+ dungeons so obscenely bad I question if they're trying. I had this tank in a level 80 dungeon earlier single pulling and they couldn't even grab aggro immediately. Myself and the dps were taking stray hits from the mobs for way too long before they'd pick them up, during a single pull. And let's not even mention the amount of vuln stacks they were collecting. I know what you're thinking. Should a tank like that W2W? The answer is obviously no, but if we're being honest a tank like that should be sticking to playing with trusts instead.

The bar is pretty low here.