Be nice to nooob tanks ffs

[Lilyth]

What is that saying people have? Oh right:

"You don't pay my subscription, so you don't get to control how I play."

No, but people can choose to boot you out if you think that unironically. :P

[Silverbane]

No, but people can choose to boot you out if you think that unironically. :P

I would think kicking a tank because you don't like their conservative playstyle would be abuse, and reportable to the GMs. (You'd best hope it is, anyway, since my spouse and I often queue together. <insert evil laugh here>)

But what would you save, anyway? A minute or two? You might wind up spending that much time waiting to replenish.

[ Lost a tank to DC once in Doma castle after first boss ... managed to clear the dungeon while we waited for them to return, but it was a bit slow. I had to heal more and DPS less than usual. ]

I note, BTW, that some of the new and revamped dungeons make it impossible to W2W pull, by requiring all of a group of trash mobs to be taken down before a gate opens. I don't mind that.

[Illmaeran]

That's because once you lost your sprout you've been playing the game for 450 hours AND at least completed the previous expansion. If it were a single player game, you would have beaten it 12+ times with a playtime like that. Your example of this alt that "only" ran 5.0 content doesn't really track on why you couldn't run higher level dungeon content.

Yes, even though I will have played for at least 450 hours and am level 90, from an actual progression standpoint I'll be at whatever level the given dungeon is and won't have used my full kit until I hit the level 90 dungeons and/or FATEs. Anything before that will be brand new for me, which my level and gear don't represent. On my second time through the first EW dungeon with no New Player notification, level 90, and full level 90 gear; would you think I'd run it many times before or would you know I hadn't? All evidence will point to "A Max Level Player Who Should Be Able To Do This In Their Sleep" rather than the actual situation.

Because I stopped at 5.0, she hasn't unlocked anything past that except for Copied Factory. Being 90, I've got my full kit minus what we get from role quests, but being synched in roulettes means I don't have access to that full kit.

[LeonKeyh]

I would think kicking a tank because you don't like their conservative playstyle would be abuse, and reportable to the GMs. (You'd best hope it is, anyway, since my spouse and I often queue together. <insert evil laugh here>)

But what would you save, anyway? A minute or two? You might wind up spending that much time waiting to replenish.

[ Lost a tank to DC once in Doma castle after first boss ... managed to clear the dungeon while we waited for them to return, but it was a bit slow. I had to heal more and DPS less than usual. ]

I note, BTW, that some of the new and revamped dungeons make it impossible to W2W pull, by requiring all of a group of trash mobs to be taken down before a gate opens. I don't mind that.

Nope, but not doing your job as a tank is kickable. If you don't pick up the enemies that the healer/DPS pulled then you're the one breaking ToS. If you and your spouse kick someone from the group for doing something that isn't against ToS then....you'd be the one breaking ToS. A successful vote kick in a full group of randoms is typically never going to be punished, but yeah, if you're pulling your spouse in, that's different.

All of the new dungeons are designed specifically to easily tell what a W2W pull is. Those "gates" are....walls...

Yes, even though I will have played for at least 450 hours and am level 90, from an actual progression standpoint I'll be at whatever level the given dungeon is and won't have used my full kit until I hit the level 90 dungeons and/or FATEs. Anything before that will be brand new for me, which my level and gear don't represent. On my second time through the first EW dungeon with no New Player notification, level 90, and full level 90 gear; would you think I'd run it many times before or would you know I hadn't? All evidence will point to "A Max Level Player Who Should Be Able To Do This In Their Sleep" rather than the actual situation.

Because I stopped at 5.0, she hasn't unlocked anything past that except for Copied Factory. Being 90, I've got my full kit minus what we get from role quests, but being synched in roulettes means I don't have access to that full kit.

What I'm saying is that your kit hasn't changed between level 80 and....level 81....you're acting like there are huge jumps in kits from level to level, but that's not the case. The "biggest" change with WAR is at level 82 where an ability gets replaced by a better version of that ability. At 86 you get a single new AoE OGCD which isn't something anyone would care about if you didn't use it. At level 90 you get another AE attack which...again... nobody is going to care about you using.

It's not like you're playing a completely different job.

[Silverbane]

A successful vote kick in a full group of randoms is typically never going to be punished, but yeah, if you're pulling your spouse in, that's different.

Without access to our billing information, I don't see how a GM can tell whether another player is my spouse.
True, we're in the same FC and queued together, but would that matter to a GM? Is the RL relationship between players any of their business, even?

Besides, I'm not the one advocating for kicking people who don't tank the "right way."
When I'm heals and tanks ask, I tell them it's up to them how much they pull.
Maybe they'll pull slow, or maybe they'll pull too much; I've probably wasted more time on tanks that outrun and/or line-of-site their healer attempting a W2W pull than on cautious tanks.

Whatever the tank does, it's their choice to make: I'm not paying their subscription.

Honestly, if you can't tolerate the few extra minutes a run will take because a tank is cautious, then queue as a tank or with a tank you know ... or don't queue at all.

[Silverbane]

On a related note, people should be aware you can level a class without ever really playing it. And not just Summoner or Scholar, either.

There's plenty of mechanisms (e.g., Wondrous Tales, Challenge log, Faerie tribal quests, even MSL quests) that let you get substantial XP for a class without ever taking that class into serious combat. You just have to be on the class you want to level when the XP comes in. I used this strategy (along with legit earning of XP) when I was power-leveling Reaper to get the last of the roles on my main character to 90, so I could do the final job quests of SB and EW.

So, someone with a high-level tank might possibly be brand-new to tanking.
Some will no doubt look askance at that, but the possibility still exists.

[P.S. As you might expect, while I wasn't bad at Reaper, I wasn't great either. But I'm pretty rusty on it right now, since my go-to DPS when I'm not healing is Dancer.]

[Zeldert-Castiel]

I will only pull one pack at a time if the healer unable to heal me because the last time I pulled like three packs I had pop up my Hallowed Ground
I could pull slow depends on the team as well

[Shurrikhan]

I will only pull one pack at a time if the healer unable to heal me because the last time I pulled like three packs I had pop up my Hallowed Ground

I mean, as long as you survived because of it, then that's at least two large pulls you can do per run. Perhaps 3 of them if it's gone over ~15 minutes before the last potential full pull of the dungeon.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Mortex]

I will only pull one pack at a time if the healer unable to heal me because the last time I pulled like three packs I had pop up my Hallowed Ground
I could pull slow depends on the team as well

I’m curious do you never use hallowed ground in any dungeon content except if the healer has Problems to heal you ?Sounds like a lot of unused hallowed grounds then.

[Rilifane]

I think it's pretty much universally agreed on that anything goes in ARR because that's where you're definitely still new/ learning the ropes - doesn't matter which role, this is newbie range, you get a free pass for the silliest things.
But once reaching HW dungeons you already went through 12 dungeons and 13 trials just for the MSQ alone; more if you did optional ones like Halatali or Cutter's Cry which is likely as at least 2 dungeons are also tied to GC progression. So unless you switched role and did all previous dungeons on a different role, that's enough tanking experience to get past the "no idea what I'm doing stage" which is already enough to pull more than a single pack (which is sometimes a single mob, joy). Doesn't have to be full balls to the wall but the newbie card can't be played forever.

And if someone is for some reason at much higher level but has barely or never tanked (boosted, grandma playing the account of her grandchildren, took a break from early SB to now, leveled through WT/ beast tribe dailies etc) then it's not the responsibility of the rest of the group to guess that and treat everyone as if that's the case - it's the responsibility of the player to make it know that they're new/ inexperienced/ took a long break/ broke both hands and are playing with their feet/ whatever.
Because there are certain norms in team content and things like being completely new at 70+ range are not the norm, they are outliers. Most people are very understanding if you say something like "took a long break, first time tanking since then so I'll pull small and see how it goes". Being an outlier isn't bad, it just means that you should tell the party. That's it.

Also keep in mind that literally nothing changes between pulling single and wall to wall. You still have to use aoe unless it's only a single mob in a pull, you still use mitigation (I hope).
Another thing to keep in mind is that unless you've some experience on the other role you'll most likely be unable to recognize good or bad gameplay. I know, nobody likes to hear this but playing a role yourself makes a huge difference and wild guesses will never live up to personal experience. So I'd be careful with assuming someone is incompetent and adjust your playstyle solely based on guessing something you have no experience with and instead communicate.
A healer constantly letting you drop to 30% and lower doesn't have to bad. Some are, some are not. Simply ask if you should pull smaller instead of assuming they must be bad/ struggling and therefor can't handle more than a single mob. I've seen a lot of tanks suddenly pull smaller without saying anything and when I encouraged them to go wall to wall again got a "no, you can't keep up" when all I did was waiting for Excog to proc or get a bit more potency out of ED or Bene nor is using invuln a bad sign. It's a cooldown, it's free. Why not use it? It's like screeching about having to use Bene on WHM because tank bad. Bene is a cooldown, it's free. Might as well use it, no?

Tl;dr: just communicate ffs.
There. Easy solution, works almost always and with the people that for some reason end up.. uh... yelling/ screaming/ screeching/ whatever it is that apparently everyone in DF does at you, there was no hope for them to begin with. Report. Done.

Picked tanking up by starting with GNB, something everybody and his cat will strongly advise against doing and it went perfectly fine. At first I only focused on using mitigation, even if timed a bit wonky I just made sure I always had something because huge damage variance and spikes are more difficult to deal with for healers than constant, even damage. And on just pressing aoes even if I broke combos or forgot a skill and let it sit for too long, as long as I had the attention of every mob it was fine. And from then on I worked my way up and tried to improve.
Told the party that I'm new to tanking but will go for bigger pulls regardless, warned in advance when I planned to Bolide the next pull. Overall smooth sailing, can't remember a single complaint or someone asking for smaller pulls.