Is the "healing portion" of healers hitting a wall in EW?

[Raikai]

Come to think of it... I would love if the abundance of healing actions we have nowadays could be pushed to their full potential with a redesign of how damage happens in the fights. This means that fights would need to be less formulaic, and that is a big design decision that would certainly need to impact retroactively old content - that's a lot of work, but it would be worth.

I don't play WoW nowadays, but I remember that healers actually compete against themselves in the healing meters to see how well the party survived with the least amount of overhealing. Here in XIV all I hear is dps placement among healers... I don't ever think I saw the discussion about "healing meters" here, because it's treated like a subproduct of the dps performance.

Though I remember healers there being homogenized in how well they perform at certain aspects of a fight, I do know that they spend most of their time worried about healing numbers (sans Disc priest for obvious reasons).

[Silver-Strider]

Come to think of it... I would love if the abundance of healing actions we have nowadays could be pushed to their full potential with a redesign of how damage happens in the fights. This means that fights would need to be less formulaic, and that is a big design decision that would certainly need to impact retroactively old content - that's a lot of work, but it would be worth.

I don't play WoW nowadays, but I remember that healers actually compete against themselves in the healing meters to see how well the party survived with the least amount of overhealing. Here in XIV all I hear is dps placement among healers... I don't ever think I saw the discussion about "healing meters" here, because it's treated like a subproduct of the dps performance.

Though I remember healers there being homogenized in how well they perform at certain aspects of a fight, I do know that they spend most of their time worried about healing numbers (sans Disc priest for obvious reasons).

That's mostly because overhealing in this game is far too easy to do. Between the self healing capabilities of Tanks, the oversaturated Healer Toolkits consisting primarily of oGCD heals, any self heals utilized by DPS roles and the laughably low healing requirements the game has in all forms of content, there's simply no value in healing meters.

[Sebazy]

I am not saying that healers should have only one button for DPS. My point is that we have other things to manage besides our Nuke and DoT.

*In content that actually needs a credible amount of healing

You can fumble your way through a surprising amount of the game with medica II alone, no need to manage anything then! =(

I wonder if making healers more complex would reduce the amount of healers. I know that if I suddenly had to start pressing more buttons to do the exact same thing, I would be rethinking if I enjoyed that thing. imo of course, I'm not a healer, so I can't judge.

Note that healer queues for just about any roulette are generally instant these days and have been for a while now.

Now look back to Heavensward when healing was generally more challenging and actually had a proper skill ceiling to boot. Yet there were comparatively more healers queueing for roulettes because healer queues generally weren't instant.

Sure, healing is accessible, more so than it's ever been. But ffs please understand that once you have some kind of understanding of what's going on and your kit, mainstream content like Aglaia is just beyond boring especially if you don't get a complete clown shower for a raid. ~30 minutes of pressing the same button over and over and over again. I stopped going as healer because Nald scales wipes had me struggling to pick up the willpower to get up off the floor.

[Rilifane]

Come to think of it... I would love if the abundance of healing actions we have nowadays could be pushed to their full potential with a redesign of how damage happens in the fights. This means that fights would need to be less formulaic, and that is a big design decision that would certainly need to impact retroactively old content - that's a lot of work, but it would be worth.

I don't play WoW nowadays, but I remember that healers actually compete against themselves in the healing meters to see how well the party survived with the least amount of overhealing. Here in XIV all I hear is dps placement among healers... I don't ever think I saw the discussion about "healing meters" here, because it's treated like a subproduct of the dps performance.

Though I remember healers there being homogenized in how well they perform at certain aspects of a fight, I do know that they spend most of their time worried about healing numbers (sans Disc priest for obvious reasons).

The big difference between WoW and FF is that you could cut down healers in WoW.
And that makes all the difference - because suddenly healing as much as possible while overhealing as little as possible while also wasting as little mana as possible (either through overhealing/ inefficient healing or ending the fight with too much mana) becomes the ultimate goal and is a sign of a good healer. And the reward for having really strong healers was being able to have someone willing respec to dps.
Overhealing was bad because it wasted raw healing power and resources that could've been spent in a way that allowed the static to cut back on a healer but instead they were stuck with an overhealer. Best case they were deadweight and only kept you from cutting back on a healer but worst case it caused wipes because the healer ran out of resources and couldn't keep up anymore. Even Disc had to pay attention to overhealing from non-atonement sources.

And here?
Overhealing is meaningless because oGCDs are free and unless the raid died to lack of healing later because you blew them all at once, it doesn't matter and it's unavoidable anyway because SE actively discourages cutting back on healers with how they design fights so you're bound to run into too much healing power for the incoming damage sooner or later and then the sniping starts, intentionally or not. Healing more can't get rewarded because comps are rigid. If you heal more, you just overheal more. There is no reward for you or your static or anyone else.

[Liam_Harper]

I wonder if making healers more complex would reduce the amount of healers. I know that if I suddenly had to start pressing more buttons to do the exact same thing, I would be rethinking if I enjoyed that thing. imo of course, I'm not a healer, so I can't judge.

It might reduce the number of people playing healer jobs slightly, but it would drastically increase the amount of healers. What I mean by that is we'd lose most of the people using the job as a free ticket into endgame content, but we'd gain a lot of players who actually want to main, invest in and master healer as a job. The type of player who wants to be as useful to the group as possible and finds the idea of flawlessly keeping the group alive while simultaneously dishing out high damage exciting. Instead of the semi-afk curebot watching netflix.

As an example, let's say an expansion or two back they reworked all dps into mostly spamming one button and many hated it and came here to complain. You could apply your same question. In this scenario the dps population actually would have increased because it's so easy, but the quality of players would have nosedived. Yes, you'd probably lose dps players if you reverted that hypothetical situation, but the players you'd have after would be the ones who actually love dps, instead of the ones who like easy clears. The lazier players still have jobs like DNC, SMN and a ton of easy content and since they have no choice but to put the minimum effort in, they'd simply do that and get through the game fine.

It's important to remember population is not a metric that correlates to good design. If they gave BLM all instant casts in 6.2, the population would triple but it would be a disaster and cause uproar. For a start, you aren't increasing the population of the game itself, you're merely shifting players from one job to another. There are 20+ jobs, so even if some are complex and have a smaller fanbase, it's healthier for the game because the variety of playstyles on offer attracts a wider overall audience than a single playstyle of faceroll. Even if 1 button healers increase the amount of players using a healer, it might even decrease the number of players who stick with the game because they try it, feel it's boring and silently leave.

[Ilyrian]

I don't play WoW nowadays, but I remember that healers actually compete against themselves in the healing meters to see how well the party survived with the least amount of overhealing. Here in XIV all I hear is dps placement among healers... I don't ever think I saw the discussion about "healing meters" here, because it's treated like a subproduct of the dps performance.

The difference in WoW is there is a some diversity between spec, class, gear, set bonuses, talent choice, trinkets, procs, boss mechanics, up time/down time, mana mangement etc.

There's definitely more to to consider as a healer in WoW.

Also WoW is constantly changing its healing hierarchy through nerfs and buffs and finding that sweet spot where your class and spec synergises at the right time and the right raid. For example Holy Priests have jumped from just about the bottom of the barrel last tier to power houses this in this one.

[Derio]

Healer DPS needs a complete rework which can prevent the wall from happening. It would still need to be braindead easy but more vibrant than it is now. A more OGCD damage skill and each to where casting a GCD heal can be towards a dps gain.

[Atma]

As an example, let's say an expansion or two back they reworked all dps into mostly spamming one button and many hated it and came here to complain. You could apply your same question. In this scenario the dps population actually would have increased because it's so easy, but the quality of players would have nosedived. Yes, you'd probably lose dps players if you reverted that hypothetical situation, but the players you'd have after would be the ones who actually love dps, instead of the ones who like easy clears. The lazier players still have jobs like DNC, SMN and a ton of easy content and since they have no choice but to put the minimum effort in, they'd simply do that and get through the game fine.

No offense, but this is a terrible hypothetical. DPS have 20+ buttons for DPSing because DPSing is their main role. They generally have 1-2 buttons for healing or mitigation because that's not their main job.

Of course "well what if they neutered DPS's DPS into 1 button spam" would create uproar because that would literally reduce them to like 8 total abilities. You'd create the same for healers if you reduced healing to 1-2 buttons. It's just not even remotely comparable for even a hypothetical "what-if" situation.

As for the BLM situation you described, we actually *do* have somewhat of an example of them doing that just in reverse. Early HW bard, when they first added Wanderer's and it turned you into a cast-bar turret. Some people loved it (ok not many... but some... ok, I'm sure at least 1 person liked it...), some hated it, but eventually 'hate it' won out and it went away.

[Silver-Strider]

No offense, but this is a terrible hypothetical. DPS have 20+ buttons for DPSing because DPSing is their main role. They generally have 1-2 buttons for healing or mitigation because that's not their main job.

Of course "well what if they neutered DPS's DPS into 1 button spam" would create uproar because that would literally reduce them to like 8 total abilities. You'd create the same for healers if you reduced healing to 1-2 buttons. It's just not even remotely comparable for even a hypothetical "what-if" situation.

As for the BLM situation you described, we actually *do* have somewhat of an example of them doing that just in reverse. Early HW bard, when they first added Wanderer's and it turned you into a cast-bar turret. Some people loved it (ok not many... but some... ok, I'm sure at least 1 person liked it...), some hated it, but eventually 'hate it' won out and it went away.

DPSing is everyone's responsible and considering that every role besides healers reflects that, there's still no reason for the role to be completely opposite of what the game more or less expects from players. Content is designed in a way where people can clear it at minimum ilvl but that is only possible if the healers are also DPSing. Healers don't need 20+ healing abilities, I'd argue anything more than 10 is overkill, but that's literally all healers have been getting since this whole fiasco started and it's bottlenecked the role into being boring as a result. What do you have to look forward to? 10 extra potency and some graphic fluff to justify it? Another heal that will copy/paste on all healers? An old skill that was removed just to be given back?

It's a joke that healers have been reduced to a job for nitwits and neanderthals that can't handle something as simple as WAR, DNC or SMN rotations and yet are trusted with keeping 7 other people alive.

[Sebazy]

No offense, but this is a terrible hypothetical. DPS have 20+ buttons for DPSing because DPSing is their main role. They generally have 1-2 buttons for healing or mitigation because that's not their main job.

Look at an average log for any content, literally anything, it doesn't matter what you pick. Now compare the amount of GCDs spent DPSing vs the amount spent healing. Now add the oGCDs into that.

Do with this info as you will.