Building a better Alphinaud

[Raven2014]

Also, there is a nation in the setting that continues to be an Isolationist state that keeps foreigners out and doesn't lift a finger to help anyone in international affairs. Consequently, very few stories can be told about Hingashi because they've closed themselves off to being influenced by foreigners (us).

Hingashi is not an isolationist. They're a neutral like the Swiss. They're literally set up themselves up as a trade and financial hub on that corner of the world, so definitely not isolationist.

[KariTheFox]

Hingashi is not an isolationist. They're a neutral like the Swiss. They're literally set up themselves up as a trade and financial hub on that corner of the world, so definitely not isolationist.

Huh? They very explicitly do not involve themselves in international affairs, and foreingers are barred from entering the nation proper.

They have a single port city that allows international trade and foreigners, and are explicitly a reference to Japan's isolationist Edo period. If Hingashi can't be considered isolationist, then pretty much no nation can.

[Raven2014]

If Hingashi can't be considered isolationist, then pretty much no nation can.

Uh ... Isghard pre 3.0? They're a prime example of isolationism. No contact, no trade, no diplomatic mission (where you can find a whole range of consulates in Hingashi) with very little info known about the inside and very little care about what happening on the outside. Hingashi despite the secretive of their government, is still too integrated to be consider a real isolationist.

[Thaciscokidd]

Uh ... Isghard pre 3.0? They're a prime example of isolationism. No contact, no trade, no diplomatic mission (where you can find a whole range of consulates in Hingashi) with very little info known about the inside and very little care about what happening on the outside. Hingashi despite the secretive of their government, is still too integrated to be consider a real isolationist.

Hingashi is way worse than Ishgard. While yes Kugane has consulates and stuff but with Hingashi, we are just on the smallest island of Shishu and there's still the whole main island of Koshu that we never even get to get close too. Its like Camp Dragonhead / Ishgard proper x10

[Raven2014]

Hingashi is way worse than Ishgard. While yes Kugane has consulates and stuff but with Hingashi, we are just on the smallest island of Shishu and there's still the whole main island of Koshu that we never even get to get close too. Its like Camp Dragonhead / Ishgard proper x10

How does any of that make Hingashi "way worse than Ishgard"!? Even if you want to argue Kugane is the equivalent of Camp Dragonhead, it's 100x more elaborated. Camp Dragonhead is basically just a security outpost to receive traveler with minimum accommodation and definitely not a commercial hub. It's basically a gatekeeper. Kugane has diplomatic mission, is MEANT to be a commercial, transportation, and culture exchange center and amplify those function to the max. Kugane is like New York city while Camp Dragonhead is like ... Midway, not even comparable. Also the Hingashi citizen embrace interaction with foreigner while Isghardian were just straight up xenophobic (which is a common straight for hardcore isolationist).


And the reason we never visit the Hingashi proper because we never have a need to, that does not explicitly say anything about its access comparing to Isghard, which is EXTREMELY hard. You may had forgotten and taken for granted now, but we didn't just willy nilly walked pass the Gate of Judgement to get into the city. Haurchefant went back to fill out the paperwork before we could go in. We were only allowed to enter the city after House Fortemp (one of the 4 great houses) agree to sponsor us as their charges.

[CrownySuccubus]

How does any of that make Hingashi "way worse than Ishgard"!? Even if you want to argue Kugane is the equivalent of Camp Dragonhead, it's 100x more elaborated. Camp Dragonhead is basically just a security outpost to receive traveler with minimum accommodation and definitely not a commercial hub. It's basically a gatekeeper. Kugane has diplomatic mission, is MEANT to be a commercial, transportation, and culture exchange center and amplify those function to the max. Kugane is like New York city while Camp Dragonhead is like ... Midway, not even comparable.


And the reason we never visit the Hingashi proper because we never have a need to, that does not explicitly say anything about its access comparing to Isghard, which is EXTREMELY hard. You may had forgotten and taken for granted now, but we didn't just willy nilly walked pass the Gate of Judgement to get into the city. Haurchefant went back to fill out the paperwork before we could go in. We were only allowed to enter the city after House Fortemp (one of the 4 great houses) agree to sponsor us as their charges.

Frankly, I don't have a horse in this race as I don't particularly care whether Hingashi or Ishgard are "more isolationist" than each other.

That said, Kugane is the equivalent to the city of Dejima, just like Hingashi itself is based on Edo-period Japan. Like Kugane, Dejima was the only city where outsiders (particularly the Dutch) were allowed to dock and trade with the Japanese. Shirogane, likewise, is considered a big deal in Kugane specifically because it's the only place that foreigners are allowed to live in the country.

I say this to emphasize that the comparison to New York isn't really accurate, either.

I'm more interested in the unique elements of every nation and culture we come across rather than listening to the Scions and City State leaders engage in their usual sophistry. As an example, the presence of organisations along the lines of the Illidari in WoW or the Reachmen of Markath in ESO never bow down to the player character but still persist in the world as a force that stand as either allies or opponents as the situation demands it. Such need not come at the cost of the Scions, either - you guys can still have them front and centre if you so wish. It's just that some of us - again - simply want some variety. For characters and factions to exist that are not simply there to be fodder to be cut down and come to align with everything the player character and their immediate social circle so desire.

I still really do not understand this argument. I know that you and Aveyond like to repeat it a lot, but I don't get what you guys want.

When someone mentions Thavnair is still a monarchy, it doesn't count because you don't like it. When they point out that Doma or Hingaghi are as well, you say "it doesn't matter because it's not relevant to the story anymore". Mention the Viis or beast tribes, and they're not European enough. The mention of Dalmasca earlier went completely ignored.

As I said before, it comes across as super strange and random that a gaggle of monarchies are being called "variety", but different democratic states with their own struggles to overcome and baggage to deal with are considered a "lack of variety".